Don't stack-a-donk the good players, guys

terp · #1 10-26-2006, 05:29 AM

the point that merits discussion more here, bilbo, is your lame turn bet. every time i have an overpair/AJ/etc here and a TAGish player 1/2pots the turn, i know i'm beat. too many of you guys go all donkish when you get the absolute or near nuts. you got lucky that he didn't see through your valuebet and stacked himself.

Dan Bitel · #2 10-26-2006, 06:20 AM

a turn C/R is fine here.

If he leads, what worse hand can you call with?

bilbo-san · #3 10-26-2006, 04:40 PM

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a turn C/R is fine here.

If he leads, what worse hand can you call with?

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AJ is the only one I can think of.

I don't think I call with a flush draw, either.

deaders · #4 10-26-2006, 07:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the point that merits discussion more here, bilbo, is your lame turn bet. every time i have an overpair/AJ/etc here and a TAGish player 1/2pots the turn, i know i'm beat. too many of you guys go all donkish when you get the absolute or near nuts. you got lucky that he didn't see through your valuebet and stacked himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are saying he should bet more? Whats so bad about 1/2 pot here?

terp · #5 10-26-2006, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the point that merits discussion more here, bilbo, is your lame turn bet. every time i have an overpair/AJ/etc here and a TAGish player 1/2pots the turn, i know i'm beat. too many of you guys go all donkish when you get the absolute or near nuts. you got lucky that he didn't see through your valuebet and stacked himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are saying he should bet more? Whats so bad about 1/2 pot here?

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yes i absolutely think he should bet more. IME your average player with TAG stats bets differently when floating and when valuebetting near-nut hands in position after the preflop raiser checks the turn.

this is a transparent value bet. if you actually differentiate your bets like this, you might as well never float, because your floats will have no credibility.

and i still believe stackadonk is fine against actual TAGs, who will float in position and apply pressure on the turn with air. it discourages floating and gets extra value out of overaggressive players who have air and will fold to a second barrel but bet if checked to.

Jamougha · #6 10-26-2006, 02:19 PM

The real question here is whether he's checkraising the turn vs you with a wide enough range of air/draws to balance the cr with QQ. If so then it doesn't matter if you fold anything less than a 5, you loose either way. If not then it's obviously a bad move.

True · #7 10-26-2006, 02:22 PM

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The real question here is whether he's checkraising the turn vs you with a wide enough range of air/draws to balance the cr with QQ. If so then it doesn't matter if you fold anything less than a 5, you loose either way. If not then it's obviously a bad move.

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I think so too

bilbo-san · #8 10-26-2006, 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the point that merits discussion more here, bilbo, is your lame turn bet. every time i have an overpair/AJ/etc here and a TAGish player 1/2pots the turn, i know i'm beat. too many of you guys go all donkish when you get the absolute or near nuts. you got lucky that he didn't see through your valuebet and stacked himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I make this bet with a steal, too, or a flush draw, that's perfectly fine.

You're saying he folds to this but will call or C/R if I bet $40? That's very illogical.

Keep folding overpairs to 1/2 pot turn bets, please.

terp · #9 10-26-2006, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the point that merits discussion more here, bilbo, is your lame turn bet. every time i have an overpair/AJ/etc here and a TAGish player 1/2pots the turn, i know i'm beat. too many of you guys go all donkish when you get the absolute or near nuts. you got lucky that he didn't see through your valuebet and stacked himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I make this bet with a steal, too, or a flush draw, that's perfectly fine.

You're saying he folds to this but will call or C/R if I bet $40? That's very illogical.

Keep folding overpairs to 1/2 pot turn bets, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

please, you're not betting 1/2 pot when you float. if you are, then that's fine and my point doesn't apply to you.

my point was that many so-called TAGs will pot the turn (or about, say 45 here) with air/nonshowdownable hands but will 1/2 pot (or about, say 25-30) with please-call-me-please hands. obviously this is exploitable. my comment about folding overpairs here was a slight exaggeration, but if you call flop, 1/2 pot turn and then pot river, yeah, i'm done with the hand and you're the one who got screwed since i keep 3/4 of my stack.