Pickung up AAK4 double suited in small blind

[davim1]

Here's a strategy question, if you pick up this hand in the small blind, would you guys usually raise it up, or wait to see a flop for cheap? (Consider that raising will not get the hand anywhere close to heads up)

[TxRedMan]

in this spot, i never raise.

[gummy d]

really?

[gummy d]

Do you ever raise out of the small blind?

[davim1]

I was just wondering, because this is somewhat similar to picking up to pocket queens in the small blind in texas holdem, its a really strong hand, but you are out of position the enitre hand and you have already somewhat given your hand away. I rarely if ever raise out of the small blind, I was just curious on what other people thought. I'd have a hard time not to raise it up though if I had AA23, because there are only a few flops that completely kill your hand. Anyone disaree? I know you are out of position, but you can be sure that a few people will drop out after the flop. I haven't been playing this game for that long, but i've been surprised how many times my pocket aces win high, and of course when you are double suited you've always got your flush draws.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
(Consider that raising will not get the hand anywhere close to heads up)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the type of hand you typically want to have in a heads-up confrontation.

Yes, being double-suited is nice, gives you some scoop potential (ideally you want more players in if you can scoop with the nut flush or the broadway straight or whatever)

The problem is the A/4 holding. Not bad against one player as your low holding, but against multiple players it's typically vulnerable unless you luck out and get a 2/3 on the board.

Since it's unlikely you can get the hand heads-up, all raising does is build a big pot where you're likely to maybe flop a non-nut low draw and potentially get too attached to your Aces.

If you have a hand that rates very well against multiple callers (such as A/A/2/3) then you're raising for value since you rate to make the nut low if a low is available, and you have counterfiett protection against a naked A/2 holding.

In addition, by not raising, you disguise the strength of your hand, which may make it easier to get paid off when you do hit the board big.

[Habib Marwan]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just wondering, because this is somewhat similar to picking up to pocket queens in the small blind in texas holdem, its a really strong hand, but you are out of position the enitre hand and you have already somewhat given your hand away. I rarely if ever raise out of the small blind, I was just curious on what other people thought. I'd have a hard time not to raise it up though if I had AA23, because there are only a few flops that completely kill your hand. Anyone disaree? I know you are out of position, but you can be sure that a few people will drop out after the flop. I haven't been playing this game for that long, but i've been surprised how many times my pocket aces win high, and of course when you are double suited you've always got your flush draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. no man, this hand is nothing like qq in holdem
2. unimproved aces very very rarely win high in omaha multiway pots
3. you should always raise qq from the sb in limit holdem

[davim1]

I should have clarified that I was talking about Pot Limit.

And I do think it is like picking up pocket queens in texas holdem (No limit or Pot Limit) in the same situation. Say you are playing a low limit game and 4 people limp in, and you have pocket queens in the small blind. Yes, this is different in the fact that you will pretty much always raise with pocket queens from the small blind. But you will be in the similar situation when some of the limpers call your raise and you have to play the entire hand out of position wondering if your hand is good.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I should have clarified that I was talking about Pot Limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you should have. Even in Pot-limit, since you stated you do not feel that a raise will narrow the field, all you're doing is building a large pot out of position.

You'll have to hit the flop pretty hard in order to feel comfortable continuing, and you could easily get caught with the 2nd best hand both ways against two other opponents.

If your raise will narrow the field, then pot the sucker, by all means. But if it won't, you're best seeing the flop and making a decision from there. Being out of position with a weak low but a couple of strong suited aces is nice.

Your hand will be well disguised and you will likely make more money when you hit the flop hard and no one can put you on the two suited aces, rather than when you telegraph your holding out of position so that your opponents can play "almost perfectly" against you (in the least, they'll likely know half of your hand, so they can tailor how they bet based on that, meaning they won't pay you off when you hit, and they'll make you pay when they hit)

[Big Dave D]

In NL you would prolly raise out of the blinds with anything from 10+ and AK, depending on how loose you are. There is a lot of deception there. In PLO8b, if you are only raising out of the blinds with AA baby then, well, raising here is basically putting a sign on your head saying, I have AA, come break me. PLO8b is an uber-position game - there is no shame playing a small pot in this spot.

gl

dd