help me extract more value here (big flop semi-deep)

neverforgetlol · #1 10-21-2006, 03:39 AM

villain seems tight but is tilting or something, swearing in chat and doesn't like me much it seems. i'm too deep i think to try to get allin on the flop here. on the turn, if i bet and he doesn't have an ace i think he's folding, and if he does he'll do the betting for me.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Hero ($94.80)
UTG ($118.95)
Button ($14.95)
SB ($79.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.5, Hero raises to $9, UTG raises to $18.5, Hero calls $9.50.

Turn: ($41.25) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: ($41.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $24, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $65.25

jeffman · #2 10-21-2006, 03:49 AM

i would lead the flop.

nofutures · #3 10-21-2006, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i would lead the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

because?

I like the checkraise on the flop. Now when you lead the turn what is he putting you on? Your combo is well disguised. Very often he will put you on a jack and a steal or two pair/a set. The key argument for leading the turn is that many river cards will kill the action. After villain 3-bet the flop an ace (AK/AQ) is not a big part of his range (except AJ). Looks very much like AA-JJ/99 or a pure bluff to me. Either way he will almost never bet the turn for you; he must be very scared of the flush.

Lead the turn for half the pot.

How awful would a 4-bet on the flop be?

BTW You shouldn't include 'UTG folds'.

neverforgetlol · #4 10-21-2006, 06:48 AM

well obv. he folded since i said help me extract more.

i don't see why we're leading the turn. that's a very scary card for villian, as i'm pretty sure he's not on a flush draw and probably doesn't have an ace. might as well let him bluff at it.

nofutures · #5 10-21-2006, 08:24 AM

We're leading because we won't get more money on the river and because he will hardly ever bet the turn. If you don't see why, it's probably best to respond the arguments I have given. Of course I maybe wrong, but I made the case. If villain bluffs in this spot he chooses a very bad spot.

If you post results the answers are going to biased. It's much harder to come up with a good answers if one has the results. So I would suggest you rename the title and exclude the results.

wake_up · #6 10-21-2006, 08:47 AM

4-bet the flop all in.

Sir Winalot · #7 10-21-2006, 09:03 AM

I'd make it 30 on turn and push river.

ymu · #8 10-21-2006, 09:23 AM

You can't checkraise the flop and expect him to bet the turn when you check again. This is essentially a free card play - congratulations, you got one.

B/3B or check/call flop, lead turn.

Leading flop is better IMO, because it disguises the flush better when you hit, and because if he's tilting at you he's likely to raise.

NSchandler · #9 10-21-2006, 11:32 AM

I don't like either option on the turn too much, but I think leading out is better than CRAI.

The problem with leading out is that it basically flips our hand over. Perhaps we could have AJ or be on a strange bluff, but it sure has to look like a flush from how we played it.

The problem with checking though is that he's probably not going to bet this all too often. That's a scary card, even for somebody with a set.

So, I'm leading out here because I don't want to give a set or 2 pair a draw for free.