QQ, umm... wtf? - Page 2

DING-DONG YO · #11 10-18-2006, 03:07 PM

I'll probably call the flop and fold the turn UI. I think this might be one of those super rare occasions where you might have the implied odds to hit your 2 outer. You're getting 16:1 on the flop call and I think you'll get 7 more BB out of this hand if you hit a Q.

Of course, there is a possibility someone flopped the str8.

gopnik · #12 10-18-2006, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB - 28/21/2 over 500
MP - 10/6/1 over 100
Button - 57/17/1 over 100

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB caps, Hero calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, Button calls, BB caps, Hero ...

[/ QUOTE ]

MP has got to have AA or KK here. I am folding on the flop.

Just counted the bets in the pot and changed my mind. I am seeing the turn and trying to hit my Q. Here is the interesting question. What if the turn is a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

boringchris · #13 10-18-2006, 04:54 PM

im not sure i like the call on the flop (once its been capped). you KNOW one of those guys has you beat already, given their stats. as far as the flop is concerned, if you were gonna see the flop, the raise is the right thing, but after a 3-bet and then cap, its time for you to go away. you're looking at a 2-outer (not including running clubs, which would still be a huge stretch cause one of these guys probably has a bigger club). so in summary, i wouldnt have called preflop, but if i had i would have done what you did (raise BB) and fold after it was capped behind me.

cassette · #14 10-18-2006, 05:33 PM

Everyone seems convinced MP has AA, KK based on our 100 hand sample of him. A sample such as this doesn't really tell us much about a player beyond whether they are tight, loose, ultra loose. It is very easy to hit a dry spell of 100 hands. MP could have 99-AA, AQ-AK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I think getting 15 to 1 folding this flop is a mistake.

I would be interested to know how many players keep their own stats on the table while they play. I have been doing this for a couple months now and have found it very helpful. I currently play 23/17 (weak tight!) and find it very interesting to see my stats ranging anywhere from 5/3 - 80/60 over 50-100 hand samples. Beyond helping you interpret other players stats, having your own info on the table helps you stay aware of your table image.

PokerBob · #15 10-18-2006, 07:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MP has AcAd. BB has AsAh. Button has a club draw. I might have the suits wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. I would probably not fold flop but try to find a fold on turn or somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

what's the difference?

sharpie · #16 10-18-2006, 07:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MP has AcAd. BB has AsAh. Button has a club draw. I might have the suits wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. I would probably not fold flop but try to find a fold on turn or somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

what's the difference?

[/ QUOTE ]

metagayme

Newtown · #17 10-18-2006, 10:10 PM

Ok, general consensus seems to be to call the flop getting 15-1 and fold unless a club or Q comes down. I think it's close cause we do need to make up decent number of bets plus the Ac and Kc might be out so I don't think folding would be bad, which is what I actually did. The hand played out rather interestingly after that:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB caps, Hero calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, Button calls, BB caps, Hero folds, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: (15.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP folds (ARE YOU [censored] KIDDING ME?), Button calls.

River: (17.20 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

Results below:
BB has 9c Tc (flush, ten high). (WTF!?)
Button has 9s 9d (one pair, nines).
Outcome: BB wins 19.20 BB.

[censored] crazy Slovenian euro lagtags.

PoorTom · #18 10-18-2006, 11:49 PM

did you know these guys were this aggro?

that would explain the flop call - if the BB was a standard TAG i'd be thinking strongly about folding.. otherwise standard up to the flop fold.

but if you knew these guys were this loose i don't know how you can fold QQ on the flop. so many times here people are going to have combo draws and medium pairs, and they're not folding. you might be ahead, and huge odds. calldown to the turn at least with a big overpair becomes almost mandatory in some LAG games - i find a very passive strategy can be useful with this sort of hand so as not to bloat the pot when you're up against multiple agreesive draws and may be behind. check call call call.

i could probably find a fold by the river here though, esp if there was a lot of betting - just about every draw has got there. but plenty of times i've seen this type of hand shown down with TT beating 89o or similar... tough spot, which is of course why reads are crucial..

(actually i kind of like BB's play here. Both MP and button are idiots though.)

yellowjack · #19 10-19-2006, 01:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(actually i kind of like BB's play here

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you are talking about postflop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PoorTom · #20 10-19-2006, 10:23 PM

actually i don't totally hate the 9-10s cap preflop even. everyone is always calling to see a flop, it's the last raise so closes the betting, it disguises his hand well, he's unlikely to be dominated, he might flop a monster or a huge draw, and he's more likely to get action on AA when he plays it the same way later.

of course i'm not capping there with 9-10s 95% of the time, but as an occasional play i think it's got some value if you play your good draws aggressively enough post-flop.