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#101
10-17-2006, 10:37 PM
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Re: Another problem for AC
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I have heard advocates of corperatocracy claim society doesn't exist. [/ QUOTE ] Society exists, it just doesn't act. Individuals in society act. [/ QUOTE ] Does society influence? [/ QUOTE ] Influence falls under action, so no. 
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#102
10-18-2006, 12:53 AM
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Re: Another problem for AC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I have heard advocates of corperatocracy claim society doesn't exist. [/ QUOTE ] Society exists, it just doesn't act. Individuals in society act. [/ QUOTE ] Does society influence? [/ QUOTE ] Influence falls under action, so no. [/ QUOTE ] Nitpick: The beautiful view at the ocean might influence me to buy a beach house, yes?
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#103
10-18-2006, 01:07 AM
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Re: Another problem for AC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I have heard advocates of corperatocracy claim society doesn't exist. [/ QUOTE ] Society exists, it just doesn't act. Individuals in society act. [/ QUOTE ] Does society influence? [/ QUOTE ] Influence falls under action, so no. [/ QUOTE ] Nitpick: The beautiful view at the ocean might influence me to buy a beach house, yes? [/ QUOTE ] My mind is blown.
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#104
10-18-2006, 01:12 AM
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Re: Another problem for AC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I have heard advocates of corperatocracy claim society doesn't exist. [/ QUOTE ] Society exists, it just doesn't act. Individuals in society act. [/ QUOTE ] Does society influence? [/ QUOTE ] Influence falls under action, so no. [/ QUOTE ] Nitpick: The beautiful view at the ocean might influence me to buy a beach house, yes? [/ QUOTE ] My mind is blown. [/ QUOTE ] No. You might decide to buy a beach house after looking at the beautiful ocean, but the ocean did not 'influence you' any more that the neighbors dog 'influenced' you to buy a puppy. You experienced the ocean and then decided alone on a course of action.
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#106
10-18-2006, 12:59 PM
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Re: Another problem for AC
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't that always true of any decision? Are you saying that nothing can influence a (freely made) decision? [/ QUOTE ] I'm certainly no expert, but here is a Wikipedia excerpt: Influence is a term that refers to the ability to indirectly control or affect the actions of other people or things. The meaning of influence therefore depends on who or what is being affected, and to what end. _____________________________________ To me, influence implies some power and action. If we continue to go with: the ocean influenced my purchase of a home... well what actually happened? Does that imply that the ocean in some way had some control or acted in some way? If I view/see a little bit of lint on the floor and then I have a thought "gee, I should get my suit dry cleaned"...did the little speck of lint on the carpet 'influence' my decision to get my suit dry cleaned? Was it the ocean that 'influenced' the decision or did you have a long (or short) series of thoughts and conversations after your initial exposure to the ocean before making a decision to move to the ocean? There is a potential slippery slope when one starts to relegate power and control to inanimate objects. How exactly did the ocean do the influencing? By existing? If it was by it's awe inspiring beauty, those are your subjective views that you used to decide to move near it. If you had emotional experiences when viewing the ocean, well those are your responsibility as well, they are your emotions and you alone are responsible for them. Someone else might see waves crashing and be very afraid and decide to move far away from it. It might have 'influenced' your decision (in a sense), but the key is that you made a decision and is fully and completely responsible for that decision, ocean or no ocean. It is not the ocean's 'fault' and the ocean shares no responsibility or credit in the decision making process, or the emotional experience prior to the decision. And in your own words: It was YOUR VIEWING (you acting) the ocean (inanimate object existing) that preceded YOUR DECISION (an action) to consider moving near it. So in short, I agree that action is required to 'influence', but as I said I am no expert and could be wrong as I often am. The context of politics is what makes the distinction important, IMO.
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