Marginal PFR, whiffed flop/turn, nuts on river - line check

Jouster777 · #1 10-18-2006, 06:31 AM

Villain is 44/9/2 and has been stealing orphan pots a bit too much. He seems like a decent postflop player and earlier seemed to use his position on me to push me off pots. Comments on every street would be valuable...I thought they were all questionable actions

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($24.40)
Hero ($62.20)
CO ($29.65)
Button ($20.50)
SB ($14.15)
BB ($30.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, CO calls $1, 3 folds.

Flop: ($2.35) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.
Usually cbet here but let it go as I thought there was a pretty good chance he would float me 

Turn: ($2.35) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, CO calls $1.50.
I had played a big hand passively an orbit or two earlier and on the turn thought he might think I had checked a big hand. 

River: ($5.35) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3, Hero raises to $10
 I thought he was weak, maybe a whiffed FD and expected a fold if I bet again. Tried to get a bluff out of him 
Final Pot: $25.35

Jon Marlow · #2 10-18-2006, 06:54 AM

I don't mind the preflop action.

I would prefer a bet on the flop generally but since you have some sort of read I guess this is ok.

I probably would have bet closer to the full pot on the turn to try and get rid of him, but the bet is good anyway.

I much prefer leading the river as it gives him the option of raising if he puts you on nothing or if he has a hand like KJ he will think he is ahead. I don't see your check-raise getting paid off here unless he has been slowplaying something like 55 or 77.

Jouster777 · #3 10-18-2006, 07:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I much prefer leading the river as it gives him the option of raising if he puts you on nothing or if he has a hand like KJ he will think he is ahead. I don't see your check-raise getting paid off here unless he has been slowplaying something like 55 or 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your comments. I agree with all of them. Other than the when to not cbet issue, the main remaining question I have here is when to alter the default river bet/3bet line with a big hand - I completely agree that should be our usual action. Being results oriented, I'm pretty sure it would have been the better line here.

I suspected here that with my turn bet, villain would put me on a big hand or weak hand but not in between. His play to that point looked like a draw or middle strength hand. If I bet I suspect he folds in both of those cases but if I c/r I at least get a bluff out of him.

Anyone buying that line of thought?

Jon Marlow · #4 10-18-2006, 07:42 AM

If you think he will bluff here a large proportion of the time then this move is good. You do say that he has been stealing a lot of orphan pots so that may sway you towards a c/r line. However, if he figures you for nothing or a monster I would imagine he would just check behind with a large number of hands, especially since he called the turn, indicating a pair at least and therefore he may figure his hand has some showdown value.

munkey · #5 10-18-2006, 07:46 AM

I too would cbet that flop (becuase HU mainly), but like you said you had your reasons -and in terms of texture it is wet.

Bet more on the turn if you want him to fold, villan may also be on a fdraw/str8draw so we can charge him.

I agree leading the river ~PSB is best -there's quite a few 2pair hands out there in villans range that will prob raise(esp. if it looks like you're trying to steal) then you can reraise.

All other weaker hands he's likely to call if he thinks you're bluffing.

If you check you only get value fromw eaker hands/missed draws and can only raise once - a 2pair hand is unlikely to reraise you back.

kazana · #6 10-18-2006, 07:53 AM

Sometimes, I just like to push on rivers like that. Thinking players often suspect I'm trying to rep the straight or hit top pair and are willing to call more frequently than they'd call a c/r. Especially since he's been bullying you around a bit, he might think you're trying to push him out this time.

I think there's possibly more value in pushing here. I mean, how often do you need him to believe you're FOS to make it worthwhile?

Jouster777 · #7 10-18-2006, 08:05 AM

I like that play too...but I've had a long run of folds with it.

Results: He called with K7o. The river card was the perfect card and I think I stack him with both the bet/3bet or the river push line [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. Though in my defense, going into the river he pretty much had what I thought