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#11
10-17-2006, 09:38 PM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet a check raise, check river UI. (maybe bet a Q) check river ui if he calls turn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- really ... why? ... help me out [/ QUOTE ] His line is fishy, I'm showing down (I'm a showdown donkey), 3bets to call turn and call river, 3-bets to raise his turn c/r, check river. Gives me option to get 4th bet in on river when we improve to 9-15 outter, or check AK hi vs other possible draws/semi bluffs, or the likely "better hand". Downside is we have to call a 4bet on the turn which almost always means we need a club, but then we are playing our hand correctly almost always. The 3-bet has other dynamics, like slight (slight) fold equity of a better hand, metagame (fear), etc. There's really a truckload of angles to be considered here for all the different portions of his range, but this is my gut instinct to play vs a turn c/r. 
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#12
10-17-2006, 09:42 PM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
what i want to know is if youd bet it after the turn 3 bet or if they check turn and then check river. and why [/ QUOTE ] If he calls the turn 3-bet he's not folding anything that we were behind to on the turn (ui of course). So no, I wouldn't bet a non-Qc river if the turn was 3-bet. I'd consider betting a Q river (mostly based on tempo of hand) if the turn went check-bet/call. Simply to pressure the smallest pairs into a bad fold getting 9:1. Then there's the times we 3-bet the turn/check river and they win with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#13
10-17-2006, 09:52 PM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 3-bet a check raise, check river UI. (maybe bet a Q) check river ui if he calls turn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- really ... why? ... help me out [/ QUOTE ] His line is fishy, I'm showing down (I'm a showdown donkey), 3bets to call turn and call river, 3-bets to raise his turn c/r, check river. Gives me option to get 4th bet in on river when we improve to 9-15 outter, or check AK hi vs other possible draws/semi bluffs, or the likely "better hand". Downside is we have to call a 4bet on the turn which almost always means we need a club, but then we are playing our hand correctly almost always. The 3-bet has other dynamics, like slight (slight) fold equity of a better hand, metagame (fear), etc. There's really a truckload of angles to be considered here for all the different portions of his range, but this is my gut instinct to play vs a turn c/r. [/ QUOTE ] do you do this without the turned club? also ... if he does cap - do you fold without the club draw?
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#14
10-17-2006, 10:42 PM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
Lead turn because you are ahead here often and have many outs when behind.
[ QUOTE ] 3-bet a check raise, check river UI. (maybe bet a Q) check river ui if he calls turn [/ QUOTE ] This is just foolish. He is rarely folding a better hand and you're talking about getting your money in when the chances increase that you are behind. Of course you may get a worse hand to fold that's always good poker. If he C/R you call twice and pop when you hit. This way a bluff doesn't fold, you lose the least when behind and make the most when ahead/pull ahead.
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#15
10-18-2006, 12:29 AM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
imo you're not giving up "value" here because your equity is pretty low on avg when you get called imo. it's just that your equity in this case when called is a lot higher than it will be in a lot of other hands that should be checked behind. and you cant just check behind all the time, so this becomes a good candidate for the bet. sire.
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#16
10-18-2006, 02:32 AM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
didnt read this thread
id check behind if i opened on the button and the bb called id bet here since the pot's bigger and i'm crushing more of his range edit: oops, the guy ur hu with isnt the pf raiser. i'd still bet since the pot's big tho
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#17
10-18-2006, 02:39 AM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
imo you're not giving up "value" here because your equity is pretty low on avg when you get called imo. [/ QUOTE ] Your equity is rarely ever lower than 30% when called.
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#19
10-18-2006, 03:24 AM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] imo you're not giving up "value" here because your equity is pretty low on avg when you get called imo. [/ QUOTE ] Your equity is rarely ever lower than 30% when called. [/ QUOTE ] im just saying we're not missing value... specifically as in getting called by worse hands, because it doesnt happen. when we get called we dont actually earn any money.
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#20
10-18-2006, 04:50 AM
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Re: Who checks behind on this turn?
*Grunch*
I would bet this every single time, just because we could still have the best hand and probably have some fold equity. And even if we get checkraised, it's not a disaster. I would call his raise, and depending on river is a club or not, fold UI or raise the made flush.
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