WPEX 3/6 QQ turn fold in big pot

numbnuts007 · #1 10-17-2006, 03:30 PM

Does anyone know of any hand converters that do WPEX hands? This ones comin' atcha analog:

WPEX 3/6 (10 handed), no reads because it's WPEX and i'm multitabling.

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, Hero caps, Button and BB call.

Flop: (12.5 bb) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.25 bb) K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero folds.

I don't like folding in a big pot like this but I can't think of any hands that i'm ahead of given the action and still have a ways to go to showdown. What do you guys think?

butters · #2 10-17-2006, 03:37 PM

I'm showing this down after the 2nd K hits on the turn, baring the third spade hitting on the river. Button could have JJ/10s (or less) here at WPEX no problem.

RyanCMU · #3 10-17-2006, 03:59 PM

after the second K hits, Im going into showdown mode... SB with his coldcall of two on the flop, looks to be on a spade draw, and the button does not have to have a K. SO if a spade doesnt hit on the river, Im calling this down.

numbnuts007 · #4 10-17-2006, 04:59 PM

Interesting, okay, so I see what you're getting at, but i'd just like to hear someone say it. Why is that second king such a determining factor in wanting to show down? I mean understand that it makes it less likey that he actually has a K, but is there something else that i'm missing about that?

Allday Everyday · #5 10-17-2006, 05:29 PM

I think you played well preflop.

The flop bet and call look good to me.

Yeah, I wouldn't fold here to an unknown. The second king on the board makes it less likely there is another king in your opponent's hand...

I think I would call the turn here...

aes14 · #6 10-17-2006, 05:59 PM

Do you mean 12.5 sb on the flop? Sorry to be a nit.

I fully expect to see AK or KQs here at showdown and with the overcall I fold...I guess that is the minority opinion here but that is my line without any reads...I agree with OP I dont see many hands beating both...

okay wait, looking at it again, the overcall may be to the flush but I still fold. We are looking at JJ or TT only to win right? AK, KK, KQ all beat us...I still think I fold without a reads.

five4suited · #7 10-17-2006, 08:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, okay, so I see what you're getting at, but i'd just like to hear someone say it. Why is that second king such a determining factor in wanting to show down? I mean understand that it makes it less likey that he actually has a K, but is there something else that i'm missing about that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you meant to use "BB" instead of "SB" for the postflop action.

You want to see a showdown here because against your CO first-in (perceived steal) raise, Button's 3-betting range is substantial. Also, his flop raise is pretty much mandatory if he's not folding. He could have a worse pair, Ax[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], etc. BB calling two cold pf and again on the flop worries me more... and then the K falls on the turn. The only way I could see <u>maybe</u> folding this hand is to a BB river check-raise.

does anyone just call the 3-bet pf? I'm thinking pot control (we'll be giving BB worse odds to call two on the flop and/or turn, with the threat of a 3-bet by us), the fact that it's 3-way rather than HU, and our "middle" position.

JJH3984 · #8 10-17-2006, 08:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]

does anyone just call the 3-bet pf? I'm thinking pot control (we'll be giving BB worse odds to call two on the flop and/or turn, with the threat of a 3-bet by us),

[/ QUOTE ]

No, our equity edge is way to big not to push here. When I have pocket queens, I'm getting as much money into the pot as quickly as possible.

Sarge85 · #9 10-17-2006, 10:32 PM

Axs plays this hand the same in imo. Lets say he's raising the flop for a free card, but picks up that second King. Since his raise could also represent top pair the King was a "blessing" for him so he turns down the free card and keeps firing representing an even stronger hand.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SackUp · #10 10-18-2006, 02:13 AM

If you are calling this flop (which you should) then you definitely need to call the turn. And yes it is b/c a second king hit which makes it much more unlikely that he has one.

You are in a semi-steal position from the CO so his range is quite large. He could easily be playing Ax [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or 88-QQ the same way (I would).

You hand is too good not to see a SD with. Given all the cold calling by the sb I would not be too worried - unless he c/r me or a 3rd spade falls.

When you are in situations like this - semi steal or steal situations it is almost like playing shorthanded. A good rule of thumb is to play as if the high card on the flop was not there - in this case the King. Then play accordingly. This concept is discussed much more fully in HPFAP or in the SH forums.