Donk this river?

[SoftcoreRevolt]

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I would had folded preflop, if not..the turn? If someone disagrees please tell me why. I'm learning here.

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Preflop for me is an easy call, you're getting 7-1 on a suited semi-connected hand that will be easy to get away from after the flop, closing the action so you don't have to worry about another raise.

The turn call seems fine, even if we toss the diamonds we've got 3 str8 outs and 3 2pair/trip outs. 6 outs needs 7-1 to call here, we're getting 10-1. Even discounting 1.5 more outs for st8 possibilities we're on the line to call. I don't think we can put villian on a set here.

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The two pair outs put 4 to the straight on the table, and our straight outs are to the bottom end of a one card gutshot. I don't think our hand has 6 outs worth of value here.

But, getting 9-1 is tempting...

[jrmarenda]

I don't think that checking with the idiot end of the str8 of a 4 card str8 on the board is neccesarily bad. I would c/c that river. Whast are you going to do if your donk gets raised? You can't fold, and I would hate to pay 2 BB to see one of the other 4 turn over a 9.

[The Vibesman]

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The two pair outs put 4 to the straight on the table, and our straight outs are to the bottom end of a one card gutshot. I don't think our hand has 6 outs worth of value here.

But, getting 9-1 is tempting...

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Even 5 outs is good to call and 4.5 is close. I think it's marginal, but not terrible.

[nuts]

grunching

I think i'd fold preflop with only 3 other in the pot. If the player utg is decent then an utg raise is to be respected.

you've got pot odds for a gutshot if there isn't a flush draw, not sure if this is a good call with only 3 good outs. I'd probably fold it I think.

I'm not sure about the call on the turn. You're drawing pretty thin.

The river is all about reads. Be careful with the ignorant end.

[jakbse]

At this scary board I think a bet is a must, probaly also against the maniac who probably wont try to bluff three opps

[droolie]

Don't donk here. Anybody with a 9 is raising. If you're lucky the action will go UTG bets, call, call then you can raise knowing the 9 is not out.

The pf call is mandatory. You are suited and in ideal position to close the action on postflop rounds given the pf raiser was UTG. Hero has marginal but +EV calls on the flop and turn but that's the beauty of being in absolute position to the pf raiser, you get to chase a lot more cheaply.

[Ricks]

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haha I basicaly got the conception that donking the river/turn is bad because I see so many people make comments on posts where a fish donks the river when he makes his straight or flush. I assumed that was "bad" play on the fish.I realize that most of the time that fish didnt have the correct odds the whole way, but sometimes they do.

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When it is the correct play, try to think of it as "leading out".

[tpkatsa]

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okay now suppose I had the nut straight/flush, would you donk the river here?

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I've read through all these posts, but I'm still confused on one thing here. There is no flush or full house possible, and let's assume you have the nut straight (9-10). What would be the reasons NOT to bet for value on the river? If everyone folds, oh well, you win anyway. If you get a couple of callers, great. If you get raised, wonderful. I just don't see how NOT betting the nuts on the river is good, since if you check you risk it being checked through. I guess the argument would have to be that checking has bigger EV than betting, but I don't immediately see how. Could someone please elaborate? Maybe I'm missing something easy. Thanks.

[Brettster]

BTW for the turn call, I counted 4 clean outs, 3 outs for the gutshot, and 1 out for a set.

[bozlax]

Just like any other street, you need to KNOW where a bet is coming from in order to go for a check/raise. You also need to know why you're c/r'ing.

In this hand, as to the first point, it looks iffy at best. An obvious draw just came in. Moreover, you've got the ass-end of it, so if UTG checks but somebody else bets, you can't be comfortable raising.

As to the second point, you're probably going to lose at least one player, no matter who bets. 2/3PTK will probably bail to a bet, as will a diamond draw, etc. Anybody left that doesn't have a better hand than yours is likely to fold to your c/r, so UTG bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, you c/r and everybody folds, getting you 2 bets. OTOH, you bet, UTG calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, you get 2 bets. Or, you bet, UTG raises, MP3 and CO fold, I'm pretty sure that UTG isn't playing a hand with a 9 unless it's specifically 99, but there are an ass-ton of top-pair/two-pair/set type hands in his pfr range he might play like this, so I 3-bet, he calls and you get 3 bets.

Now, all that being said in answer to the question asked, your preflop and turn calls sucked ass, imo. Unless you've got a read that UTG is a maniac and MP3 and CO are uber-loose passives, you don't have enough overlay to play this OOP. Once you make it to the flop, you've got the odds to draw to a TWO-CARD gutshot. When you pair one of your cards on the turn, you're drawing to the ass-end of a ONE-CARD gutshot, and you've got 3rd pair no kicker. You need 4-5 outs...if they're all clean, you have 9 to two-pair or better, but once you take out the cards that put 3 to a flush on the board you only have two 6s, one 4 and one 7, for a total of 4. I cut the 6s in half because you're drawing to the ass-end and you've only got 3 outs. Not enough to call.