I remember when I could beat this game

JoeyT · #1 01-30-2006, 06:49 AM

So I played quite a bit in high school and college, from about 99 til 04, and made a decent amount of money playing. I don't play nearly as much anymore, but I play online whenever I get the itch.

I've had PokerTracker now for like 8 months... and I have 15,000 hands on different limits in holdem... and am down about a BB/100 over that span. Luckilly, I've just been playing for very little money because I've been too frustrated to play anything that would even remotely damage my bank account... but I'm starting to wonder if I should bother playing at all anymore. I'm certainly not playing as well as I did when I played every day in college, but I feel like I'm applying all the same principles and still playing a reasonably solid game. How do you investigate whether or not this is still a +EV game for you? I'm having a ton of trouble determining if this is a streak or if I just don't have it anymore. I haven't really been enjoying playing lately because I've been losing all the time, but obviously its a great game when things are going your way.

So... how far does 15,000 hands go? When does the 'short term' end? What can I be doing to decide whether or not this can potentially be a +EV game for me anymore?

Thanks as always,
JoeyT

CaseS87 · #2 01-30-2006, 08:32 AM

15,000 hands is almost meaningless as far as winrate goes. You should expect to know whether or not you are a winner/loser in the game at 60k hands and won't know your true winrate until about the 300k mark.

If you haven't already, read Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller. Just reading the book and applying most of the concepts will make you a winner in any game up to party 5/10 IMO. Even at higher levels all the concepts can still be applied.

AviD · #3 01-30-2006, 12:39 PM

15,000 hands in 8 months? I think I played 20K in 2 weeks this January...you clearly need to play more if you are serious about poker and really want to establish your game. Otherwise, if you want to play just recreationally and occasionally, that is fine too, but I'm assuming you didn't get PT for recreational/occasional review of hands and results.

Clearly time played does not necessarily reflect experience, I'd say you are still in the "short term" and will never know your true winrate or level of play until you invest alot more time both in studying and in playing.

Good luck.

PokerEveryDay · #4 01-30-2006, 12:59 PM

There has to be some meaning to 15k hands since if that was live play it would take at least 3 months at 40 hours/week. At that rate it would take at least a year to know if your a winning player or not, come on. BUT, were in the online poker era now and it seems like hardly any hands at all.

Anyhow, what game exactly are you playing and what limits? You might want to drop down to say .25/.50 for a bit to see what you think first. No offense but if you have been playing say 2/4 and up during this time, going down to .25/.50 should clearly be easier and might tell you something.

Evan · #5 01-30-2006, 01:29 PM

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There has to be some meaning to 15k hands since if that was live play it would take at least 3 months at 40 hours/week.

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No.

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At that rate it would take at least a year to know if your a winning player or not

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Yup.

JoeyT · #6 01-31-2006, 05:56 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies. If this information helps to formulate additional replies, great... if not, thanks for what is there right now.

I actually used to play around 30 hours a week for 4 years... read a ton of books, used to read 2+2 for an hour a day and was pretty serious about poker. My game was pretty solid as far as non-professionals go and my winrate was nice over about a 4 year span when I used to track results by hand. Since I have taken up a career in something other than poker I just play recreationally when I find the time because I enjoy it. I got PT because I thought it would give me interesting data about my game, and I wouldn't have to record every session in excel anymore [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Really I was looking for some replies on what people feel 15,000 hands means, because its been awhile since I've been serious about the game and obviously I forget a lot of things like this.

Thanks,
JoeyT

Forbillz · #7 01-31-2006, 10:12 AM

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Really I was looking for some replies on what people feel 15,000 hands means, because its been awhile since I've been serious about the game and obviously I forget a lot of things like this.

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Not to be short, but the answer is "Virtually nothing". I'm currently in a 300BB downswing in my last 9k hands, but it doesn't mean I'm the worst poker player ever (I'm more like bottom 10, but not worst ever).

You can judge yourself more in increments of like 100k. And even that's not perfect.