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#11
10-14-2006, 07:06 PM
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Re: Middle Pair No Kicker
Joujou, in nano stars games you dont have to overpush hands like these. On the flop youve got a weak hand in a 5way, you have few outs whereas villians have plenty. they are great games and easy to beat because you get paid off big with big hands...just dont overpush marginal ones like this and youll be fine.
was your turn raise because you realised MP2 had 1BB left and likely stacking off and so you raised to get HU and to SD? 
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#12
10-14-2006, 09:17 PM
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Re: Middle Pair No Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
Flop bet is close, but it's actually an easy check/fold. [/ QUOTE ] This is contradictory. If it's close, it's not easy. I don't mind the flop bet, but fold to the turn bet. It's an interesting question whether you can value bet the turn if it's checked to you.
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#14
10-15-2006, 04:25 PM
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Re: Middle Pair No Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
was your turn raise because you realised MP2 had 1BB left and likely stacking off and so you raised to get HU and to SD? [/ QUOTE ] I wish, I only realised that after he went all-in! [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] I think I did bet on the river to get HU though, as he couldn't win that bet if I lost, if thats a good reason! Results: Final pot: 12.7BB <font color="#ffffff">MP2 showed Ts Kc</font> <font color="#ffffff">Hero showed 6s Jc</font>
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#17
10-16-2006, 09:56 AM
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Re: Middle Pair No Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
Joujou, in nano stars games you dont have to overpush hands like these. On the flop youve got a weak hand in a 5way, you have few outs whereas villians have plenty. they are great games and easy to beat because you get paid off big with big hands...just dont overpush marginal ones like this and youll be fine. was your turn raise because you realised MP2 had 1BB left and likely stacking off and so you raised to get HU and to SD? [/ QUOTE ] Aussie, in what situations would be overpushing marginal hands like these be correct? I suspect in HU situations with a tight/weak player is one obvious situation, but maybe I'm missing some?
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#19
10-16-2006, 06:45 PM
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Re: Middle Pair No Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
Am I being too aggressive here with only 2nd pair and an overcard on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] not in my opinion, although you are in bet/fold situation...you hand is marginal with 4 other players but three players ahead of you have checked, so bet, you may well be ahead--its possible that you are being set up for a check-raise (has anyone done that yet in prior hands?), or someone is slow-playing 2 pair or a set (not likely with 5 to a flop as convention is to bet out with a strong hand against that many opponents, someone is bound to give you action). But better to bet and find out on the cheap rounds where you stand, but be ready to abandon you hand if you get raises back at you...here MP2 being short-stacked its probable he is tilting on the turn, so i think you properly discounted his betting/raising action...
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#20
10-16-2006, 08:07 PM
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Re: Middle Pair No Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Joujou, in nano stars games you dont have to overpush hands like these. On the flop youve got a weak hand in a 5way, you have few outs whereas villians have plenty. they are great games and easy to beat because you get paid off big with big hands...just dont overpush marginal ones like this and youll be fine. was your turn raise because you realised MP2 had 1BB left and likely stacking off and so you raised to get HU and to SD? [/ QUOTE ] Aussie, in what situations would be overpushing marginal hands like these be correct? I suspect in HU situations with a tight/weak player is one obvious situation, but maybe I'm missing some? [/ QUOTE ] 1. when you have position and can get it to SD cheap 2. when your opponents are predictable 3. when the pot is very large (although it may depend on why it is large) Things to consider when you flop a marginal hand are 1. pot size (see Large Pots v Small Pots, pg 145 is SSHE) 2. board texture (rags v somewhat coordinated v highly coordinated) 3. number of outs you have versus the number of combined outs your villians have (check out Reverse Implied Odds on pg 33 of SSHE). Theres also a footnote somewhere in SSH - I think it relates til waiting til the turn but whatever - where Ed discusses a situation where you have 4-5 opponents, all with maybe 5 outs but when those outs are combined then all of a sudden you have to dodge alot of cards to actually have your marginal made hand hold up. In small pots checking and folding is often best. In large pots you may have to find a way to protect your hand. For me, one way that makes this sort of easier to play is to think about how many bets Im likely to be putting into the pot if want to win it. Eg if its a 5 way pot against a bunch of stations i know Im not gonig to win it with one measly flop bet and I also know that villians may not be intelligent enough to bet a hand that beats mine. eg say this is instead a 3 way pot and im against 2 blinds with the same hand and flop. I'd be more confident that I could get to SD for 1.5BB by betting the flop, betting the turn (folding to CR) and checking behind the river. edit: its not a big sample size but my results have improved once I started actually paying real attention to pot size and mucking marginal hands in small pots. word.
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