Monster draw strategy

[Freelancer]

In this post I am going to give a couple of examples of a monster draw running into a common situation, I believe everyone can learn a lot from these type of posts. So lets see if we can get a good discussion going.
The villain in all of these hands is your typical NL 50 donkey, with about a 40% pvip and not particulary agressive or dangerous. He’s more likely to call you down with a wide range than he is to raise you. He isn’t a complete idiot however and can fold TPNK when shown proper agression. Assume 100bb effective stacks at 50 NL.

On to the hands, I am going to give two made up hands that are both stopped on the turn. One is a NFD+pair+overcard and the other the standard straight+flush draw. We are going with both hands for a b/3b ai line.

Here we go;

Dealt to hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero is on the button. Villain limps from UTG.
Hero raises to 2.5$. Villain calls (HU).

Flop; J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Pot: 5.75$
Hero bets 5$. Villain calls.
Turn; 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Pot: 15.75$
Hero???

You are a likely ahead at this time, do you bet out and how much? If you respond please give your reasoning WHY you make this move, and what your plan is when you get raised/called.

On to the second hand;

Dealt to hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero is on the button. Villain limps from UTG.
Hero raises to 2.5$. Villain calls (HU).

Flop 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Pot: 5.75$
Hero bets 5$. Villain calls.
Turn; 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Pot: 15.75$
Hero ???

At this point here is likely behind, but has a gazillion outs to improve. Do you bet to try and push him of his hand, or do you check hoping for a free card. As with the previous hand please explain your reasoning WHY you make a certain move. In this hand after I get the concensus on the turn we will move on and see what villain does and our next move. Note that this is a much more precarious situation than the previous one.



Disclaimer; It is generally considered that b/3b ai is the best line for monster draws in most situations, if you disagree feel free to discuss.

[RAHZero]

I bet the turn in hand 1. We're most likely way ahead here, and if villain has a weaker jack he only has 3 outs to improve unless he also has straight draws as well (JT or J9). I think a bet of about $10 is good here. It gives villain decent odds to call with a weaker jack, even though they're not good enough given that hero has the NFD.

Hand 2, I check behind if villain checks. Note you put us on the button in both situations, so I'll gladly take the free card as an underdog if villain checks to me. Players at NL50 rarely get pushed off their hands on the turn after calling big flop bets, so I'd rather see the river with tons of outs instead of risking a check-raise or putting more money into the pot when behind.

[Freelancer]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet the turn in hand 1. We're most likely way ahead here, and if villain has a weaker jack he only has 3 outs to improve unless he also has straight draws as well (JT or J9). I think a bet of about $10 is good here. It gives villain decent odds to call with a weaker jack, even though they're not good enough given that hero has the NFD.

Hand 2, I check behind if villain checks. Note you put us on the button in both situations, so I'll gladly take the free card as an underdog if villain checks to me. Players at NL50 rarely get pushed off their hands on the turn after calling big flop bets, so I'd rather see the river with tons of outs instead of risking a check-raise or putting more money into the pot when behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your move if villain c/r ai on the turn in hand 1?

Also flip positions on hand 2 (you raised in MP, he called otb).

This is going to be a good excersize on how people play in various situations with these type of hands. Your reasoning is dead on so far.

[gimmetheloot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I bet the turn in hand 1. We're most likely way ahead here, and if villain has a weaker jack he only has 3 outs to improve unless he also has straight draws as well (JT or J9). I think a bet of about $10 is good here. It gives villain decent odds to call with a weaker jack, even though they're not good enough given that hero has the NFD.

Hand 2, I check behind if villain checks. Note you put us on the button in both situations, so I'll gladly take the free card as an underdog if villain checks to me. Players at NL50 rarely get pushed off their hands on the turn after calling big flop bets, so I'd rather see the river with tons of outs instead of risking a check-raise or putting more money into the pot when behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your move if villain c/r ai on the turn in hand 1?

Also flip positions on hand 2 (you raised in MP, he called otb).

This is going to be a good excersize on how people play in various situations with these type of hands. Your reasoning is dead on so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Call, quickly.

2. If I am OOP, I am firing the hell out of that turn, or c/r AI. Both are goot. I like to c/r [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]