I'm picking out a Thermos for you...

[AceLuby]

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody wants to fold, and wait for shorter stacks to bust out / a better opportunity to get chips in than to take a 50/50 (which pays 10.5/9)?

I'm thinking this is certainly a case where $EV diverges from cEV - although I'm not sure by how much.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have an M of 6 and unless the 300-700 dollars means a ton to you we need to push here. Calling for set value is spewing chips. Folding the 4th best pr hoping for others to bust out is not how I ever play a final table. Plus, how do you know you're a 50/50? We have to assign a range and I'm sure we're ahead of it.

[NoahSD]

Don,

Pfr is the HJ, you can't fold TT to his minraise without a crazy ninja read and this is obviously push/fold.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

Don,

Pfr is the HJ, you can't fold TT to his minraise without a crazy ninja read and this is obviously push/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Not an ordinary thermos for you. But one with a handle and a cup built right in....

Regards,
Woodguy

[DonT77]

[ QUOTE ]
Don,

Pfr is the HJ, you can't fold TT to his minraise without a crazy ninja read and this is obviously push/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, in the actual hand I only had 6BBs, and there was only one stack (instead of 3) that was shorter than mine - so I did push - and lost to AQo. I was just wondering if increasing my BBs and the number of short stacks would change anything. I suppose I could have tweaked the problem even more to make it more interesting. Thanks for the feedback all.

[NoahSD]

I'm sure if you tweeked the payout structure enough, this becomes a fold.. but you'd have to change it a ton. We're talking about TT vs. a big stack HJ raiser. Even if he's tight, you think he's dropping 22 here?

[DonT77]

One interesting thing here is that the more BBs we have, the more FE we have by pushing (and obv we don't have much if any FE with 6-9 BBs against a big stack Min-Raise). As our #BBs increase, there is point where we might have enough stack to get some FE and increase our cEV, and then at some critical point, I think that pushing no longer maximizes our cEV and especially not our $EV.


Keeping the payouts the same. Let's say we are 3rd in chips with 6 players remaining-

(TT vs a big stack min-raise)
What is our play if we have 12BBs?
What is our play if we have 15BBs?
What is our play if we have 18BBs?
What is our play if we have 21BBs?

This probably all comes down to math - but of course we don't have time during play to perform these calculations quickly in our heads even if our read of hand ranges is dead-on. So we need to train our intuition (at least I do).

These are the type of things that go through my mind when I try to sleep after playing poker all night. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[AceLuby]

12 BB'sand I may just call, see a flop and barring anything unfavorable, jam on the flop. 15-21 and we have a little more poker to play and may be able to take it w/ some good reads...