JJ - Page 2

andyfox · #11 10-12-2006, 05:49 PM

"If you're going to fold the river, why call the turn?"

Poster didn't see he was going to fold the river when he called the turn. There's a big difference when an ace comes on the river than if an undercard comes. Besides, there are many opponents against whom it may be correct to call the turn with the intention of folding to a river bet.

J.A.Sucker · #12 10-12-2006, 05:59 PM

Bob,

I don't think the flop is standard at all.

With JJ against a tough player, your hand is worth little more than a call-down. You are a dog here more often than you think. Just call it down all the way, regardless of what comes (though with the A and K things get scary). I would also consider calling the flop bet and making a raise on the turn against lots of players who are running bad, especially with the K or an A coming off.

I would not be able to find that bet on the end, which is a good idea against 99% of the players I'd describe as "tight and thinking" and who'd put in that kind of action on this hand.

Best,
The Sucker

thirddan · #13 10-12-2006, 07:27 PM

"I would not be able to find that bet on the end, which is a good idea against 99% of the players I'd describe as "tight and thinking" and who'd put in that kind of action on this hand."

does this mean that the river bet is good against 99% or player that are tight/thinking or bad against them?

J.A.Sucker · #14 10-12-2006, 07:44 PM

Sorry. I meant that the bet is almost always horrible once they have played strong all the way and then check on the end. OP seemed to have a great read, though. Another nice hand, and it's important to keep these things in mind when you're playing high-stakes. If you notice important things (even online), you can make some money that you don't "deserve."

Kevin J · #15 10-12-2006, 11:18 PM

Wow, you see this hand almost identical to the way I did. So what do you think is the best river play for my opponent? Bet? Or check/fold? How about check/raise? I just thought this was an interesting hand from all angles. He could also assume it unlikely I have AA, KK, or AK. A check/raise by him would've been pretty gnarly.

Kevin J · #16 10-12-2006, 11:26 PM

I agree this hand isn't that important in the overall scheme of things. One of the things I have to work on is adjusting from the large differences between players in the games I've been playing lately (online, different parts of the country, different limits, etc.).

So you think I took the JJ overpair too far here? You're probably right that a fold on the turn against this particular guy will be correct more times than not. It's just that folding would've been suicide against the majority of opponents I've been seeing lately. I gotta do a better job of adjusting. Speaking of which...

I'll be up there this weekend... Have the games changed much since the online legislation has passed? Some better players are coming out of the woodwork here in Chicago, but the upside is that we've getting higher limits off.

PokerBob · #17 10-12-2006, 11:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree this hand isn't that important in the overall scheme of things. One of the things I have to work on is adjusting from the large differences between players in the games I've been playing lately (online, different parts of the country, different limits, etc.).

So you think I took the JJ overpair too far here? You're probably right that a fold on the turn against this particular guy will be correct more times than not. It's just that folding would've been suicide against the majority of opponents I've been seeing lately. I gotta do a better job of adjusting. Speaking of which...

I'll be up there this weekend... Have the games changed much since the online legislation has passed? Some better players are coming out of the woodwork here in Chicago, but the upside is that we've getting higher limits off.

[/ QUOTE ]

the 30 game on tuesday night had myself, schneids, bicyclekick and rockets (another very good player but he doesn't post here), and the game was still great. i am asssuming the games will only be better this weekend. have a safe trip.

steveyz · #18 10-13-2006, 02:49 AM

I'm not sure what the best play is from his prospective. Personally, I don't like the preflop cap then 3-bet on the flop and I wouldn't take that line with TT very often against someone I considered a TAG. He's just not going to be ahead very often. Just calling the flop (or calling the preflop 3-bet) could allow him to represent a larger range of hands later on which would make your play much more difficult.

Given that he did what he did, I think he should continue to bet his TT and hope that you either have 99, or for whatever reason, fold JJ/QQ. If I'm feeling frisky, I could see c/ring the river as there is no way he can put you on AA/KK/AK, but of course, any I don't like to play limit hold'em by relying on my opponents folding big hands.