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#11
10-06-2006, 08:12 PM
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Re: min raising?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I of course agree with you that a typical cbet should be 2/3 - 3/4 of a pot to push off draws [/ QUOTE ] No. You don't want to push off draws. It's very important to understand that. You want them to call. After all, paying too much when drawing is a mistake for villain, unless he gets paid off when he hits. But this also means that you must not pay off when the chaser hits. Let the pot go if you think he hit his draw. It sucks, and it happpens often (1 out of 3 times), but try to never pay off. [/ QUOTE ] To clarify, you only want the draws to call if they're making a mistake to do so. Bets of 2/3-3/4-full pot are a decent size for this. Once you've priced out the draw, you're rooting for them to make a mistake and call you. 
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#13
10-07-2006, 02:54 PM
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Re: min raising?
[ QUOTE ]
You are in the BB against a LAG in the SB who limps in against you - both checked to the flop (pot size 2xBB), and the LAG pots the flop. You have mid pair and think he's whiffed, so you want to reraise him since you have something but putting a 6xBB bet to semi-bluff a 4xBB pot seems kind of ridiculous - in this case wouldn't a 4xBB bet (making it a min-reraise) be more reasonable? [/ QUOTE ] The LAG's preflop out of position limp has me nervous. I usually raise from the BB when action folds to the SB, and he tries to limp. In this situation, though, I'd fold to his flop bet 90% of the time. If I did, indeed, think he had whiffed and was trying to buy the pot, I'd raise to 3X the size of his bet (which would be 6X the BB). Most LAG's play things like flush draws aggressively, and I want him to think about his call a bit. Sure, you are risking 6 BB's to win only 4 BB's, but my biggest concern is the pot odds I am laying my opponent. If I think I have the best hand, I need to make him pay to draw on me. By raising 3X the size of his bet, I'm laying him 2.5 to 1 pot odds. Two overcards (which is more likely than a flush draw), for instance, can't call on those odds and make it profitable long term. Now, if I only min-raised, I'm laying him 4 to 1 pot odds. The pot odds aren't immediately there, but if his hand hits the turn, he could feasibly, at times, extract enough money out of me through tricky play to make this a long term profitbable move should he catch on the turn. Furthermore, if he holds something like two overcards PLUS a gut shot straight draw, or even a back door draw, I've put him in a must-call situation by only doubling his initial bet.
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#15
10-07-2006, 09:39 PM
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Re: min raising?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No. Call and let him bet again. [/ QUOTE ] I think a min-raise would be a better option than turning into a calling station. If you have position and think you have the best hand, you have to raise. [/ QUOTE ] Untrue. Why do you *have to* raise here? What are you hoping to accomplish? The LAG isn't going to fold a hand like TPBK which beats us and he isn't going to put in more money with air. This is a decent opportunity to use the LAG's weakness against him. LAG's like to bet when they sense weakness. A min-raise let's the LAG continue with his stronger hands and get away almost free with his total air. Calling gets the LAG to bet again with both hands and costs us less when he has the stronger one. Assuming our middle pair is well, in the middle, around 9-7, then it's almost impossible for a LAG to have more than one overcard to our pair and the pot is still small so we are not risking much by letting him see the turn for less than he's already charged himself and he'll frequently bet again when he would have folded to a raise. Even with a min-raise that he may call, he can check-fold the turn now and is unlikely to put more money in unless he's just a total idiot. If he is, you *still* may want to just call. A min-raise or even a fairly big raise may invite an even bigger re-raise or turn bluff that we can't call with middle pair. Your overall strategy in position against a LAG should frequently be to let him lead the hand in small pots where your hand is only marginal in strength. You don't want to bloat the pot and his hand will frequently be worse - by raising you just let him off the hook. When you make a strong hand it's time to hope he has one of his stronger hands and build a nice pot with some raises, though I think a min-raise is too small most of the time unless you think he will take it as weakness and make an even bigger raise back at you. Don't just raise when you think you're ahead. Play to make the most money.
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#17
10-09-2006, 11:20 AM
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Re: min raising?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No. Call and let him bet again. [/ QUOTE ] I think a min-raise would be a better option than turning into a calling station. If you have position and think you have the best hand, you have to raise. [/ QUOTE ] Untrue. Why do you *have to* raise here? What are you hoping to accomplish? The LAG isn't going to fold a hand like TPBK which beats us and he isn't going to put in more money with air. This is a decent opportunity to use the LAG's weakness against him. LAG's like to bet when they sense weakness. A min-raise let's the LAG continue with his stronger hands and get away almost free with his total air. Calling gets the LAG to bet again with both hands and costs us less when he has the stronger one. Assuming our middle pair is well, in the middle, around 9-7, then it's almost impossible for a LAG to have more than one overcard to our pair and the pot is still small so we are not risking much by letting him see the turn for less than he's already charged himself and he'll frequently bet again when he would have folded to a raise. Even with a min-raise that he may call, he can check-fold the turn now and is unlikely to put more money in unless he's just a total idiot. If he is, you *still* may want to just call. A min-raise or even a fairly big raise may invite an even bigger re-raise or turn bluff that we can't call with middle pair. Your overall strategy in position against a LAG should frequently be to let him lead the hand in small pots where your hand is only marginal in strength. You don't want to bloat the pot and his hand will frequently be worse - by raising you just let him off the hook. When you make a strong hand it's time to hope he has one of his stronger hands and build a nice pot with some raises, though I think a min-raise is too small most of the time unless you think he will take it as weakness and make an even bigger raise back at you. Don't just raise when you think you're ahead. Play to make the most money. [/ QUOTE ] You're strategy makes sense, I'd just like to take a moment to explain mine. If you were to read my other posts in this thread, you'll see that I am against a min raise 99.9% of the time. The min raises I do make are situation specific, and in this case, I do not support a min-raise. I just think it would be better than a call, but after reading your post, I'll say that is all a matter of play style. I would raise to 3X the size of his bet, and the reason why is because I view this to be the perfect opportunity to just make a play back at the LAG. I don't want to take a high risk by trying to stack him on a rope-a-dope maneuver with such a marginal hand when I can make a move here and there with a marginal holding to make sure I stack him later with a powerful hand. With this in mind, if he reraises to fold me off my hand, this can actually work to my advantage in the long run. Plus, if that reraise is a pure bluff, if he's willing to risk a substantial amount of his chips just to make a play back at me, I've got him exactly where I want him. I'm thinking that a correct move here is all based on play style and the table image I have created. I make most of my chips playing NL from tilting and then stacking my opponents, and I guess the only time I cold-call here is when my table image is extremely maniacal. I want the cold-call to scare my OOP opponent more than a raise would. I usually only like to rope a dope when I know I have the best hand, not when I think I have the best hand, and the problem with playing a rope-a-dope here is the simple fact that if an overcard comes on the turn and he leads out again, how can I call? Thanks for your response, though. Yours is the first I've ever heard in defense of this style of play that makes sense.
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#18
10-09-2006, 02:44 PM
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Re: min raising?
I like to use the min raise to show weakness when I am trapping. Other than that I have tried to put min raising out of my game. It was a big change for me and was very difficult, but it is probably one of the most profitable changes a begginer can make to their game (IMO). Typically I would min raise when I had some weak holding that I thought was was good I.E. KJ os from EP, I knew I just didn't want to limp so I would raise 1BB--5 callers later...you know the rest of the story.
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