Are we at war???

[The Grumbler]

Today, Saturday October 7, 2006... a date which will live in infamy... the citizens of America were suddenly and deliberately attacked by congressional and presidential forces of the Imperial Government of the United States.

The citizens of America were at peace with that Imperial Government, and, at the solicitation of that government, was still in conversation with it and its Emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the United States.

...

It will be recorded that the process of passing unpopular and unwanted legislation is difficult and underhanded, and makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time the Imperial Government has deliberately sought to deceive the citizens of America by false statements about the name of the bill to be passed and expressions of hope for continued peace.

The attack today on the freedom of it's citizens has caused severe damage to American poker players and internet gambling. I regret to tell you that very many billions of dollars have been lost, lives torn apart and hopes dashed. In addition, internet poker companies that do not fall under the jurisdiction of the Imperial Government have announced capitulation and are banning poker players from America.

...

No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people, in their righteous might, will win through to absolute victory.

I believe that I interpret the will of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost but will make it very certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger us.

Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.

With confidence in our citizens, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph. So help us God.

I ask that the citizens of America declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by the Imperial Govenment on Saturday, October 7, 2006, a state of war has existed between the citizens of America and the Imperial Government of the United States.

Original by Franklin D. Roosevelt - December 8, 1941
Modified by The Grumbler - October 7, 2006

See the original text at:
http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/fdr-infamy.htm

Surprisingly little text is changed for the new threat.

[filthymuv72]

NICE POST!

[Jack Bando]

US Gov trying to outlaw igambling =/=Nazi Germany, 1940's Japan,Pearl Harbor, Luisitania, USSR, slavery, the Civil War, etc...

Anyone who claims US gov is Nazis or something similar either doesn't know what Nazi's were (German ones of 1940's, not Neo-Nazis groups of today) and is cheapening the debate with this hyperbole.

[Zele]

These comparisons also make us look shrill and turn off potentially sympathetic fence-sitters.

[dwatts1350]

This is the most asinine thing I've read to date about the ban...

[The Grumbler]

You either do not recall your history, or worse, do not understand it.

I am not comparing the atrocities committed by axis powers to the loss of online gambling freedom. I AM comparing the tactics used to consolidate power and the stripping of rights from the people, and what they lead to...

Long before the concentration camps appeared in Germany (and Poland), the NAZIs had to consolidate power. This includes legal power (Hitler as Chancellor, burning of the Reistag) and practical power (Brown Shirts and SS). Once the Jews and rest of citizenry were stripped of the power to resist, the atrocities began.

Hitler used the economic desperation caused by the great depression era, coupled with the reparations levied on Germany at the end of WWI to achieve power. In our times, it is fear created by terrorist attacks. In both cases, the freedoms of the citizenry are systematically curtailed.

Have you walked thru the "showers" that were used to gas the Jews? It is terrifying. Have you visited the memorials at the concentration camp sites that echo, "Never Again!" Are you even aware that German high school students have to visit a camp before they are granted a high school diploma? Have you walked thru the Marionplatz in downtown Munich and gazed upon the obvious repairs made to the great Glockenspiel by Allied bombing? We don't have these constant reminders of how bad things can get.

So why hasn't Bush burned the Capitol bldg? Because Congress is cooperating with him!! During the course of his administration we are losing rights under the Patriot Act, the warrantless wiretapping, the fiasco at Guantanamo (granted, not rights most Americans are interested in) and to hold land not endangered of eminent domain for private uses (Supreme court action, but lacking any federal legislative response).

Why is the loss of Internet Poker important on this roadmap? Because all the rest had at least some guise of necessity. There is no legitimate rationale for a need to restrict citizens rights in this way. When those in power feel that they have consolidated enough power so that they can do what they want with impunity.... they do it. And here we are.

In the grand scheme of things, the loss of internet poker is at most a great annoyance. I maintain it is important for the reasons listed above.

This is not a call to weapons of any sort. This is a call to political awareness (and hopefully action) to a generation that has sooooo many distrations.

[The Grumbler]

[ QUOTE ]
These comparisons also make us look shrill and turn off potentially sympathetic fence-sitters.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are talking about poker players that are sitting on the fence, then that seems to be their problem.

If you are talking about the general public, then I applaud them for digging so deeply into the issue as to find my post on this forum. If that's the case, they probably have plenty of other info to form a decision.

If not, I don't know what you are talking about.

[Lawman007]

To compare the internet gambling bill to the death, destruction, and atrocities of World War II is sheer ignorance, plain and simple.

[BenA]

[ QUOTE ]
To compare the internet gambling bill to the death, destruction, and atrocities of World War II is sheer ignorance, plain and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this statement. However, I also think that OP is making a valid point through hyperbole. This is not a crisis worthy of world mobilization, but it is, and let's have no doubts about this, just another step towards a police state in this nation. That being said, I think that a better historical comparison could be used...

The American Revolution. This event occured essentially because British colonials were being taxed without getting to vote on it, were still somehow being censored across the Atlantic ocean, and generally being the victims of a ton of minor irritations. But they felt that King George and his merry British parliament could go to hell anyways. They wanted to have their own say, to not have to support an oppressive crown with the fruits of their hard work.

This is a better example for me mostly because... in spite of some definite atrocities committed by the British government, mostly the colonies were tired of being inconveniced. They were annoyed. So they kicked Britain out. Does this justify a revolution? I really can't say... but it happened.

Frankly, I'd rather we rid 2+2 of all Nazi terminology. Its too weighted and sometimes, far too disrespectful of those who really suffered. Legitimate comparisons are always valid, but an online poker ban is not the same as a pogrom. I think its more legitimate to look to the anger of the forefathers of this country and consider how this event relates to the Constitution. I think its Unconstitutional what has occured. Then again, the greatest irony of all is that we need this document, which was supposed to liberate all mankind while allowing slavery and genocide. I don't find this to be a trivial subject, so lets be reasonable. We have a problem in front of us, so lets attack it as reasonable citizens who still believe that we may rightfully and morally appeal to great ideals, even though their inception was corrupt.

[mikeh1975]

you mean they almost banned it in the 1940's? i heard we also had problems in the late 1960's due to all the unrest with the vietnam war and racial issues and that caused the quality of the games online to go down a bit.efforts by nixon and reagan were not successful to ban it but they knew neteller would be a formidable foe not worth taking on because they had other issues they were facing at the time.