Happens all the time SSHE Live-still confused

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
i think alot of people are missing the point about this hand and how it should be played to be profitable or are otherwise choosing to ignore it because they think they are postflop gods. but whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's going to be that hard to play this hand profitably considering the pot will be over 30SB on the flop if we call. We'll pretty much need the flop to go to 3 bets for us to have any chance at making a mistake, and that's assuming we don't flop something awesome (meaning OESD or better).

If we think there's a good chance we end up getting tricked into paying 3-4SBs on the flop with a mediocre draw, a fold looks a lot better to me.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont like to limp with hands like that in middle position. thats a little risky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding the first time around after zero limpers at this type of table would be a huge mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I've seriously never folded this hand PF in an unraised pot at Motor City 5-10

[/ QUOTE ]

Move to 10-20 if you have the BR. The game is just as good.

[/ QUOTE ]

the 10-20 is actually softer than the 5-10 these days, the 5-10 players are actually trying sometimes.

I bought a house, so my live poker money is now a down payment [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[phosix]

[ QUOTE ]
Friday night 9 handed live Bay area B&M. Typical mixture of loose passive and loose aggressive. average 5-6 to a flop. hasn't chopped in 4 orbits. raised preflop maybe 1-2 times per orbit, but once in awhile the maniacs get their drinks and it gets capped preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

sorry for the lame fold post
i can deffinityl see why we want to get involved in this hand at this type of table. ive been playin aggro tables lately(by choice to sharpen my game) and that hand would be a big no no. but at that table id defintley call

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
In this example, the J8s does bad because the AJo is out there dominating it, while the 97s has a live 9. If you took the AJo out of the calculation, J8s would definitely do better than 97s.

[/ QUOTE ]

um. yeah. i'm an idiot.

[ QUOTE ]
And James, you don't think it's ever profitable to call 2 cold with 87s?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure it is; especially a live game. i am sort of operating under the assumption "if you need to ask, it's probably not a good idea". for the less experienced postflop player the problem comes when you flop a pair or some weak draw and you have the odds to pay several bets to draw to your kicker or trip outs or whatever. often times you payoff all the way in a huge pot with a hand that never had a chance, or never really had much of one because you had the "odds". when the flop hits, unless we catch zero piece of it we are often not folding. any sort of bd draw or pair draw, anything like that and we are tied to the pot to at least see the turncard and/or the river. identifying when your effective odds are going to [censored] is a key in playing an implied odds hand like this, and quite frankly it is hard to keep in mind when the pot is so insanely bloated that literally any two with a chance are often correct to call. nobody makes a mistake postflop in a pot like that because the action(and mistakes)made preflop bloat the pot to the point that they are hard to make. it has the effect of leveling the field between good players and bad players because nobody with any sort of hand is going anywhere, and they are correct to do so. there are lots of examples of this in posts, HEPFAP, maybe even TOP. this sort of makes me think of Kurosh's post about the flush draw a while back. it doesn't fully apply, but it may have made similar points. do i call two cold in some spots, yes. but it depends on the preflop requirements and postflop tendencies of the other players involved. autocalling or autofolding is a mistake. it is a situational spot that IMO you don't lose alot by staying out of. in the end, we are often all fish chasing our 2-5 outer in that elusive big pot...