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#31
09-29-2006, 08:32 AM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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spent $300 billion on the war in Iraq with little to show for it, [/ QUOTE ] Nonsense. He has an awful lot to show for it; for instance tens of thousands of corpses and a sectarian civil war. 
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#32
09-29-2006, 08:34 AM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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[ QUOTE ] As confirmed in the latest NIE, the Iraq was has increased the amount of terrorism. Therefore, leaving would reduce terrorism. [/ QUOTE ] If I light a building on fire it increases the occurence of fire damage to buildings. Does walking away decrease the damage? [censored] no. That's an absolutely awful argument. NT [/ QUOTE ] It doesn't decrease the damage, no. But nor is letting the arsonist hang around likely to improve the situation or please the building's residents.
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#33
09-29-2006, 09:30 AM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It took over twenty years to catch the Unibomber and he was on our soil. [/ QUOTE ]Interesting. Is anyone seriously suggesting that this is a Democrat or a Republican fault? [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely not. You took it in a manner completely inconsistent with my point. [/ QUOTE ]I apololgize for misunderstanding your point, which I still can't understand what it is. If your point is that lone serial killers/saboteurs are a bitch to catch, well, everybody knows this, and it has little relevancy to hunting down terrorist networks. (I hope no terrorist is reading this. They might start getting ideas.) Mickey Brausch
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#34
09-29-2006, 10:36 AM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It took over twenty years to catch the Unibomber and he was on our soil. [/ QUOTE ]Interesting. Is anyone seriously suggesting that this is a Democrat or a Republican fault? [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely not. You took it in a manner completely inconsistent with my point. [/ QUOTE ] The "Cyrus strawman"....surprise surprise surprise.
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#35
09-29-2006, 03:33 PM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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because they wont settle for anything less. show me any conflict, internal or external, where appeasement worked. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know if you've noticed or not but, WE invaded THEM. And they WILL settle for less. If you want to say 9/11 started this you are wrong. It was started by interventionalists like you running US foreign policy to do whatever they can to exert power over the middle east. They have said constantly that there goal is to get America out of their land. If we leave Iraq hows that going to affect our ability to defend our own borders? I'll give you a hint, it won't. Appeasement isn't applicable here, unless you think that Iraq is like, our land or something. edit: Also, to HMK, that link is gold jerry, gold!
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#36
09-29-2006, 03:49 PM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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Ok, I'll take another shot at it. The reason it is important to leave Iraq as part of the Global War on Terror (GWOT) is that by remaining in Iraq, we are causing more people to become terrorists than our military can kill in Iraq. An interesting example I that Utah helped me realize is the Brits: as far as I'm aware, Britain was completely uninvolved in Islamic terrorism since they cut loose their Middle East after WWII. Now that they have joined the Coalition of the Willing, they have had two major terrorist incidents: the train bombings and the latest plot to blow up airliners. [/ QUOTE ] Did you forget about Lockerbie? And was the Iraq War resposible for Iran in 1979 and Lebanon in 1983? How about the TWA hijacking? It is extremely naive to assume that if you walk away from the problem that it will go away on its own, or even diminish.
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#37
09-29-2006, 04:38 PM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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Did you forget about Lockerbie? [/ QUOTE ] Lockerbie had nothing to do with Islamist terrorism. Arab nationalist terrorism, perhaps. [ QUOTE ] And was the Iraq War resposible for Iran in 1979 and Lebanon in 1983? How about the TWA hijacking? [/ QUOTE ] Iraq, no. Non-interference:involvement in Iranian politics and the Lebanese civil war (or at least not increasingly overtly taking sides within it) would have gone a long way towards avoiding both of these events. Every time the West tries to meddle in the Middle East it goes wrong for just about everybody involved.
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#38
09-29-2006, 04:39 PM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It took over twenty years to catch the Unibomber and he was on our soil. [/ QUOTE ]Interesting. Is anyone seriously suggesting that this is a Democrat or a Republican fault? [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely not. You took it in a manner completely inconsistent with my point. [/ QUOTE ]I apololgize for misunderstanding your point, which I still can't understand what it is. If your point is that lone serial killers/saboteurs are a bitch to catch, well, everybody knows this, and it has little relevancy to hunting down terrorist networks. (I hope no terrorist is reading this. They might start getting ideas.) Classy. Mickey Brausch [/ QUOTE ] Mickey, The point is that if someone doesn't want to be found, they can make it very hard for those looking for them. Why does one have to assume that OBL is surrounded by a "network"? Personally, if I were him, I'd be nowhere near a large group of my followers. But, thats me. Anyone who believes that catching/killing OBL is going to stop or largely defeat militant Islam is a fool.
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#39
09-29-2006, 04:46 PM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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Anyone who believes that catching/killing OBL is going to stop or largely defeat militant Islam is a fool. [/ QUOTE ] I actually agree with this. But if BL is found or killed, you can bet we'll be hearing exactly the opposite from Bush and co, despite what they say while they remain unable to find him; just like Iraq turning yet another supposed corner with Zarqawi's death.
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#40
09-29-2006, 04:52 PM
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Re: The President Says What Needs To Be Said
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[ QUOTE ] Did you forget about Lockerbie? [/ QUOTE ] Lockerbie had nothing to do with Islamist terrorism. Arab nationalist terrorism, perhaps. [ QUOTE ] And was the Iraq War resposible for Iran in 1979 and Lebanon in 1983? How about the TWA hijacking? [/ QUOTE ] Iraq, no. Non-interference:involvement in Iranian politics and the Lebanese civil war (or at least not increasingly overtly taking sides within it) would have gone a long way towards avoiding both of these events. Every time the West tries to meddle in the Middle East it goes wrong for just about everybody involved. [/ QUOTE ] So now you want to argue semantics? Arab Nationalist vs. Islamist? I don't care if they feel that Jigglypuff is better than Pikachu. If they want to kill us over it and subject us to Jigglypuff fascism, they're in for a fight. Terrorism is terrorism, and if they target the US, they deserve to get the hammer dropped on them. It would be much easier if we could simply target a state and defeat the problem, but life isn't that simple. We've had trouble with that part of the world since this country's inception (Barbary?), and so has most of the rest of the world. It's just that now, it's easier to commit carnage on a much greater and more visible scale. As a result, there comes a time where you probably have to deal with it in a much more violent and visible way (preferably before some wackjob Islamist head of state ferrets his new nukes into our country and sets them off).
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