Poker Ethics Question

Jeepzeke · #1 09-26-2006, 12:02 PM

FYI-I posted this in another forum. I am not sure of the correct forum for this.

Situation: 8 players left in 10 player sit in go. Small stack goes all in for about $300. I call and so does another (we each have about $1500). On the flop I hit top pair with Ace kicker, and bet. The other caller, who was on a straight draw, says I should not have bet because the idea is to eliminate players and it is easier to eliminate the all in with two hands competing compared to one.

I do see his point, but my thinking is I should build my chips with the best hand. If I dont bet and he hits his draw I do not get the all in money.

Also I have always heard you check an all in unless the board improves your hand.

Was I in the wrong here? If so, why? This was debated in the room and I was in the minority. BTW- I won the hand even though the straight draw called.

Thanks in advnace for your thoughts.

EJXD2 · #2 09-26-2006, 12:14 PM

You never bluff at a dry side pot in tournament because you're risking something to win nothing... that's just smart poker, but betting when you improve your hand (or if you just think your best at that point) is always appropriate.

pzhon · #3 09-26-2006, 12:21 PM

This has been discussed many times before. Don't bluff into a dry sidepot, but it is often right by a lot to bet into a sidepot. There is nothing unethical about it.

In your situation, with TPTK and 8 players left in a SNG, it was pretty clear to bet for value or to protect your hand.

It's not your responsibility to knock people out. The benefit from knocking someone out is small and spread among many people, and it only matters in the rare parlay that you knock out the eventual best hand with the eventual 3rd best hand. Your share would be microscopic. The cost of not protecting your hand may be huge.

It is unethical collusion to tell someone to check it down when someone is all-in, and the floor should understand that even if most players don't, and may give a warning or impose a penalty. You will hear all sorts of absurd things said in poker rooms. Most poker players lose for good reason.

tipperdog · #4 09-26-2006, 12:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You never bluff at a dry side pot in tournament because you're risking something to win nothing... that's just smart poker,

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear, bluffing into a dry side pot may be stupid, but it is NOT unethical. They are your chips and you may play them however you like. There is no ethical dilemma in your scenario at all.

MD_ · #5 09-26-2006, 01:22 PM

One thing not often considered (but that is given a brief mention in TPFAP) is that it is sometimes in your best interests to save the all-in player when it doesn't cost anything to do so. This could be the case on the bubble where you have a big stack and are picking up lots of blinds. In this case trying to prevent an opponent from beating the all-in guy by betting with nothing can be strategically sound. Of course accidentally winning the hand yourself is often good too, but the main point is to prevent a live opponent from winning.

-MD

Yads · #6 09-26-2006, 01:40 PM

With so many people still left the benefit of knocking the all in out is minimal. Your goal is to accumulate chips early on.

rando · #7 09-26-2006, 03:35 PM

The other guy was probably just sore that he was being shut out of a pot he probably wasn't going to win anyway.

shaftman11 · #8 09-26-2006, 11:24 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the goal to win. The strait draw shouldn't get a free look because somebody is all in. I can see the point about not bluffing into a dead pot. But with TPTK, make the draw pay for it!!!

Coffee · #9 09-27-2006, 01:10 AM

Tell the str8 draw (politely and respectfully) to get bent.

bheinima · #10 09-27-2006, 04:38 PM

1. This has nothing to do with ethics.

2. You do whatever is best for YOU. If there are three people left in a tourney and the pay-out is something like $100, $75, $20 (I know, this doesn't happen), then it would be to your advantage to check down a pot with the other big stack to knock out a short stack unless you hit a big hand, due to the steep payout increase you achieve by making second or better and the small difference between first and second. In this case, you are right. There's a lot of chips to be accummulated and a lot of draws that need to be charged, so bet away. And try to play against this guy often as his statement indicates he knows nothing about poker and has a very simple mind.