(60) AQ suckage

[samsonh]

I like preflop and flop but I think you've gotta bet turn here. Make it 400. But as played fold river.

Edit to say if he pushes turn after we bet I am not certain but am prone to call.

[AMT]

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Bet turn

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I thought the river was the easiest decision of the hand. Its the turn I'd like to hear about. If I bet 400 on the turn, then what?

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Then you've made a weak bet that is unlikely to take down the pot if he has anything at all and you've got yourself very close to pot-committed on the river.

I check the turn, but I'm sick of arguing with people, so I'm just gonna leave it at that.

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i dont want to argue with you pete, but i think a turn bet is ok here because:

1) i dont really think its that small of a bet (why is 2/3 pot small?)
2) it forces villain to reveal his hand, and it could very easily/likely be his draw at this point
3) hand protection, which i guess is part of #2


i dont actually mind a turn check but i dont mind the bet either

[pineapple888]

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Bet turn

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I thought the river was the easiest decision of the hand. Its the turn I'd like to hear about. If I bet 400 on the turn, then what?

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Then you've made a weak bet that is unlikely to take down the pot if he has anything at all and you've got yourself very close to pot-committed on the river.

I check the turn, but I'm sick of arguing with people, so I'm just gonna leave it at that.

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i dont want to argue with you pete, but i think a turn bet is ok here because:

1) i dont really think its that small of a bet (why is 2/3 pot small?)
2) it forces villain to reveal his hand, and it could very easily/likely be his draw at this point
3) hand protection, which i guess is part of #2


i dont actually mind a turn check but i dont mind the bet either

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OK, well I'll respond to AMT because I like him. I think that's my new standard. The heck with everyone else. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Point 1: Actually 400 is less than 60% of the pot and he only needs like 27% immediate winning chances to call plus his implied odds are even better because you are going to have a tough choice on the river.

Point 2: If he calls again he hasn't revealed anything, he could have a draw or a monster, you've gained no info whatsoever.

Point 3: As hero, I am very far from sure I am ahead. There is just ugliness everywhere on this board, JTs or 89s or sets or donked-up KK or AA are all staring me in the face. If the stacks were shallower I could just push if that was my read (although I might still play it tight/weak), and if they were deeper I could make a strong bet and still have room to get away. But the stack size makes the risk/reward poor in this case so I'm just hoping to get to a cheap showdown and if that means he draws out on me, such is life.

[Green Kool Aid]

how much of a leak is it to fold this UTG?

[MagBumper]

I wouldn't mind folding this UTG if the table was full of maniacs and I was pretty sure to get reraised.

Someone mentioned they like a limp here but I don't agree since any raise and you are going to either have to drop it or play a bigger pot oop. I don't like the amount of the pf raise; not even 2BB.

[Gary Stevenson]

raise more preflop, bet more on flop, push the turn. 150-pf, 275-flop, slight overbet push-turn 930/875 pot [/cash gamer's mentality]

edit- forgot BB was tight...this complicates things a little bit but i still dont mind pushing the turn here, i doubt villain called me with any type of hand that hit 2pr on this flop and if he did have 2pr+ i think he'd likely c/r me on a draw heavy flop like this. with that in mind i'd put him on a weaker made hand like KQ/QJ or a draw. i'm happy with pushing against that range here...

[flyty86]

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how much of a leak is it to fold this UTG?

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i fold this too.

if i played this. i would probably be pushing the turn

[schwza]

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Bet turn

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I thought the river was the easiest decision of the hand. Its the turn I'd like to hear about. If I bet 400 on the turn, then what?

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Then you've made a weak bet that is unlikely to take down the pot if he has anything at all and you've got yourself very close to pot-committed on the river.

I check the turn, but I'm sick of arguing with people, so I'm just gonna leave it at that.

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i dont want to argue with you pete, but i think a turn bet is ok here because:

1) i dont really think its that small of a bet (why is 2/3 pot small?)
2) it forces villain to reveal his hand, and it could very easily/likely be his draw at this point
3) hand protection, which i guess is part of #2


i dont actually mind a turn check but i dont mind the bet either

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OK, well I'll respond to AMT because I like him. I think that's my new standard. The heck with everyone else. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Point 1: Actually 400 is less than 60% of the pot and he only needs like 27% immediate winning chances to call plus his implied odds are even better because you are going to have a tough choice on the river.

Point 2: If he calls again he hasn't revealed anything, he could have a draw or a monster, you've gained no info whatsoever.

Point 3: As hero, I am very far from sure I am ahead. There is just ugliness everywhere on this board, JTs or 89s or sets or donked-up KK or AA are all staring me in the face. If the stacks were shallower I could just push if that was my read (although I might still play it tight/weak), and if they were deeper I could make a strong bet and still have room to get away. But the stack size makes the risk/reward poor in this case so I'm just hoping to get to a cheap showdown and if that means he draws out on me, such is life.

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just because we're not going to make it incorrect for him to draw, it doesn't make it wrong to bet. we're still gaining equity by money going in when we're a favorite. if he does have a draw, he doesn't mind check-calling, but he'd much rather it go check-check.

personally i would jam the turn. i think his most likely hand is something like Adxd or Kdxd, likely with a gutshot. by pushing now you fold out those hands and also can still get called by worse Qx hands. i also would have bet more on the flop because the board is so draw heavy. if i were paying a lot of attention, i would have bet more on the flop so that my turn push was a little more reasonable, but it's optimistic that i would have thought that far ahead.

[pooh74]

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how much of a leak is it to fold this UTG?

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Its not a "leak" to fold exactly, but I think raising to 150 is pretty much a standard play here...Seems like a tight table so play it accordingly. If CO pushes you're calling...if a tightie pushes you probably should fold...if you get flat called, play it like hero did, folding the river.