2 overcards and OESD

[ThunderEagle]

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) hand converter

Preflop: ThunderEagle is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, ThunderEagle calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">ThunderEagle bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Button calls, ThunderEagle calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">ThunderEagle bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Button calls, ThunderEagle calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
ThunderEagle checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Button calls, ThunderEagle calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

I thought I played this very well and standard. However, MP2 then starts in on me for betting the flop. An interesting conversation ensued with him finally asking "you ever read hold'em for advanced players?", "no... ok", "then shutup".

Now, I'll admit, haven't read it yet. I have read SSH and GSIH, and I'm pretty sure that both books would advise me to bet this flop. Am I wrong? Did I miss a key concept? Would this really change for mid-stakes games? I'm playing nano's because I'm trying to learn. Not sure why he is, oh wait, maybe because he is calling pre-flop with J5o.

[marchron]

Well, HPFAP certainly doesn't recommend limping with J/5 offsuit. I've never read it myself, but I know it doesn't say that.

Betting the flop isn't horrible, but I think I would have waited on the probable Button bet and check/raised that to force out MP2. That would have been the plan, anyway; MP2 certainly would have bet following your check, so it would have been scotched.

On the turn, I then would have checked top pair/OESD, then raised MP2's bet to trap everyone. If MP2 three-bet, I would have called down from there.

[Dunkman]

Well you have 8 outs that are golden, then lets say 4 for the overcards. With 12 outs and 2 cards to come you have a pot equity edge over the field, so it seems to me that you can bet for value here (I probably would have checked to the PFR, but I don't think a bet is bad.) Additionally, the book is "Hold'em for Advanced Players." Anyone playing at .02/.04 isn't an advanced player, so I don't see why reading that book would be relevant. I always try to say something really fishy in a spot like this, like "you can't learn anything about poker by reading a book..." and hopefully I'll get more bets from the guy.

[Niediam]

SSH says to fold preflop (even though I'd guess it's only slightly -EV considering you are in the SB) but the real issue here is that you need to play your good hands much more aggressively.

[Hume]

Coldcalling with KQo from the sb [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[ThunderEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
Coldcalling with KQo from the sb [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a pretty weak table.