$2/4 preflop question

[phosix]

ok then thats nice of you.

[Nick Royale]

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Whatever odds he may be getting don't matter one bit because he knows I have AK, AA, KK, QQ or JJ.

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You should 3-bet wider here. And by extremely tight I didn't thought you ment TAG.

[nooob]

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the fact that you do that is very silly. you cannot always expect orgigional limper to fold especially when the limper (hero) is a tag who wont let go of a hand sinced its ususally bound to have value. id say alot more ofton that not we are dominated, and if we do catch any peice of a flop we are asking for trouble.

and limping in with a10 suited utg is not a bad play at certain tables in fact id ussually limp or fold it. the only time to raise that hand utg is at a tight sane table where hand reading abilitys are more prevalant.

can someone yell at me yet?

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1. what's silly raising ATs utg? 3 betting a utg limper and a lag raise with 88+? or is it calling the 3 bet from a TAG in mp?

2. why wouldn't the original limper fold? if he had a strong hand, and is a TAG, i'd expect a raise, esp hands that dominate 99s or above.

3. i like raising ATs utg cuz it makes things a lot easier.. limping with a lag behind you is just asking for trouble.

[phosix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the fact that you do that is very silly. you cannot always expect orgigional limper to fold especially when the limper (hero) is a tag who wont let go of a hand sinced its ususally bound to have value. id say alot more ofton that not we are dominated, and if we do catch any peice of a flop we are asking for trouble.

and limping in with a10 suited utg is not a bad play at certain tables in fact id ussually limp or fold it. the only time to raise that hand utg is at a tight sane table where hand reading abilitys are more prevalant.

can someone yell at me yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. what's silly raising ATs utg? 3 betting a utg limper and a lag raise with 88+? or is it calling the 3 bet from a TAG in mp?

2. why wouldn't the original limper fold? if he had a strong hand, and is a TAG, i'd expect a raise, esp hands that dominate 99s or above.

3. i like raising ATs utg cuz it makes things a lot easier.. limping with a lag behind you is just asking for trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 betting with 88 is silly unless you have great control over your opponents.
raising utg with a10 suited at anyone other than a tight nit table is bad because yes it is very speculative

the origional limper will fold half the time -maybe- so youll have to play 88 with 2 opponents and not alot of room to improve if behind with a big pot

to help you think like this. at suited is same as j10s if im UTG. if the game conditions allow it play it otherwise dont.

[Aces McGee]

Folding is standard here. The looser the three-bettor and the worse the relevant parties are postflop, the more hands you can call with, of course.

I have yet to play in a game, up to $5/$10 online and $10/$20 live, where folding ATs UTG wasn't by far the worst of the three available options. I raise it far, far more often than I limp with it.

-McGee

[Nick Royale]

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3 betting with 88 is silly unless you have great control over your opponents.

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I would consider 3-betting 88 marginal, I probably 3-bet 99+.

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raising utg with a10 suited at anyone other than a tight nit table is bad because yes it is very speculative


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Raising ATs is often good.

[nooob]

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the origional limper will fold half the time -maybe-

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i disagree with this. there aren't too many limping hands in UTG that will not fold to a 3 bet from MP, esp if ur a TAG and the utg knows this.

[hoosiertim]

Since it was me who called let me explain my thought process.

I limped UTG with ATs. Normally I would raise or fold, but I didn't this time.

The player immedaly behind me (loose agressive) raised. There was no way to put him on ANYTHING. I also assumed he would dontate some more bets to the evntual winner, chasing to the river.

the OP three bet from middle position. I put him on AA, KK, QQ or AKs. He is very tight preflop (06/04/3). I didnt figure him to 3 bet AKu.

So...at this point I there are 8.5 small bets in the pot. Im getting over 5.5-1 to call. Of the hands I put him on there are 3 ways to make AA. 3 ways to make AKs (remember I already had one of the aces)and 12 ways to make KK or QQ. Since I'm only in really bad shape if he has AA or AKs, There is a 67% chance I'm not in really bad shape.

I think they keys to calling those two bets are the current size of the pot and the fact that a 3rd donator may make it a pretty nice size pot should I hit my hand. I also will not have any trouble getting away from it if an ace hits and OP shows strength.

[nooob]

wow. 6/4/3 !? that IS extremely tight.

that changes everything. i was thinking this extremely tight was somewhere along the lines of 12/7/2 or so.

[alul]

6/4/3?! I muck everything, including pocket aces. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]