Becoming an affiliate/sub-affiliate

[Bobo Fett]

OK, I've seen this asked before (and have done so myself), but I've yet to see a concise answer. As this forum is about to disappear (see announcement at the top of the forum), I'll take one last crack at getting a comprehensive answer.

I'm interested in starting my own affiliate or sub-affiliate site. I don't know if I even fully understand the difference myself. I think I'd prefer an arrangement where I can get a few percentage points off a player, but not have to worry about the headaches. Is this feasible? I wouldn't be totally against being the direct affiliate, but I'm thinking there are lots of reputable affiliates out there already, why not let them do what they do best, steer them some traffic, and make some money?

I plan on having a quality site that adds value for players, and would like to do it for the long haul (if there is such a thing in this business any more). I just think my time might be better spent doing things other than sorting out people's accounts, problems, etc...especially when there are so many out there already that do a good job of this.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, whether it be explaining the terminology, suggestions as to the best way to approach things, or even offers. Respond to this thread, or PM me, whatever you think is most suitable. I'm sure I'm not the only one with these questions.

Thanks in advance for any help you are able to provide. Sad to see this forum go...so many helpful people out there. And plenty of smart-asses that provide a few laughs [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], even at my expense sometimes I'm sure.

[RikaKazak]

To answer some of your questions...well try to.

The long haul is out there...I've been an affiliate for over 3 years now. So yes, I like many others, look long haul.

Being a "master affiliate" is HARD to do. Reason being is most people like myself, start at being an affiliate more or less to make an extra $100 a month. Then it just grows, grows, and grows...hence, I don't even have a master affiliate, I just signed up by going to the sites themselves.

If you want sub-affiliates offer people something. That's the biggest thing. Wether it be time, your skills or whatever...but has to interest the people.

I have many sub-affiliates under me. Some give rakeback (for sites that allow it) others like myself keep 100% of the rake. I find it easiest to be a master affiliate if you don't give rakeback. Reason being is rakeback affiliates are fighting for every % they can get so they can higher a higher % at the same profit margin as their competitor. Where as, if say site "x" gives me 33% instead of 35% it matters yes...but not THAT much that I can't keep making a healthy profit, u know.

sorry if my post was just babble, hope it helped a little.

[Bobo Fett]

[ QUOTE ]
To answer some of your questions...well try to.

The long haul is out there...I've been an affiliate for over 3 years now. So yes, I like many others, look long haul.

Being a "master affiliate" is HARD to do. Reason being is most people like myself, start at being an affiliate more or less to make an extra $100 a month. Then it just grows, grows, and grows...hence, I don't even have a master affiliate, I just signed up by going to the sites themselves.

If you want sub-affiliates offer people something. That's the biggest thing. Wether it be time, your skills or whatever...but has to interest the people.

I have many sub-affiliates under me. Some give rakeback (for sites that allow it) others like myself keep 100% of the rake. I find it easiest to be a master affiliate if you don't give rakeback. Reason being is rakeback affiliates are fighting for every % they can get so they can higher a higher % at the same profit margin as their competitor. Where as, if say site "x" gives me 33% instead of 35% it matters yes...but not THAT much that I can't keep making a healthy profit, u know.

sorry if my post was just babble, hope it helped a little.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, there is some help there. However, I think I wasn't very clear on the sub-affiliate part. I wasn't thinking of signing up sub-affiliates under me. I was thinking of becoming a sub-affiliate myself, trading off some revenue for less headache.

What do people think are the pros/cons of this? How much money does one give up? IE do affiliates who pay rakeback make 5, 10%? Do I get 1, 2, 5%? Just throwing these numbers out there...no idea what the real deal is. I also know this will vary from site to site, and will depend on how much the affiliate you are signing up under does for you, but any feedback would be appreciated.

Received a few PMs, thank you, I will be replying in short order. I welcome new ones if you feel that is the best way to reply, but it would be great to have replies in this thread as well.

[sweetmoses]

i have a bunch of friends i would like to setup with rb deals and would like to have my own site to run it. can people pm me as well?

[Bobo Fett]

I'll try this one more time, and see if I can be a little more concise with my questions.

What are the different ways one can make money bringing players to a poker site, while offering rakeback to players? I would assume you can:

A) Sign up directly with the poker site as an affiliate
B) Sign up under an existing affiliate

Are there any other options? I assume that if you go with option A, you make more money, but are doing more work, hand-holding, etc. Option B would seem to be much simpler, but obviously would generate less income for me.

Can anyone give me even a rough idea of what the differences are between these two options (assuming I have them right) in terms of profit and obligations?

Alternatively, is there a better place for me to search out this information? Of course I can Google it (and have), but one never knows what kind of bias/agenda one is getting on some sites...for the most part, I know what I am getting here, and can even trust some of you. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Boondah]

Option A may make you more money in the end. However, it is extremely hard to build up enough rake to even offer competitive rakeback percentages. This is where option B comes in. Its basically a ticket to the top rates. Its the difference between offering 18% using option A and hoping to even touch any kind of MGR or getting 27% to start but limiting how high you can go.

I guess it comes down to long you are willing to build and what kind of player base you can create initially.

[Thisbetom]

I might be a bit unclear on what you are asking, but if you dont want to offer rakeback, the best route is to sign up as a subaffiliate under someone who has affiliate accounts at other sites and then promote as you would normally (as if you just opened your own affiliate account). You dont lose any money by signing up as a sub. You still get paid the exact same at the end of the month, the only difference is that your "parant affiliate" will get 20% of your revenue.

Its not within the terms of service for mosts sites, but you might be able to work out a 50%/50% split of that 20% extra revenue if you find a parent affiliate willing and a site that allows it

[Thisbetom]

I think I worded that unclear... Lets say you get $100 / player at site X and you sign 1 player in January

You sign up as your own affiliate
Your monthly paycheck = $100
Total = $100

You sign up as a Sub
Your monthly paycheck = $100
Your Parent Affiliate = $20
Total = $120

[morgant]

bobo,

i sent you a pm, outlining some basics. and i can fully explain all that you are looking for. why are you still posting in this thread? seems curious that you havent responded, but are still hammering this thread. anyways, ill give it a shot here.

it depends on if you plan on offering rakeback, do you want a website, how are you going to get players to signup. there are many variables you need to answer to figure out the best way forward for you. this is why i sent you a pm, as this calls for at least an IM exchange and potentially several phone calls. what you are asking cant be answered justly in a simple thread.

anyways, heres a shot at a few of your options:

a) signup your own affiliate accounts with the poker sites and then begin promoting poker. when/if you do this, make sure to signup as a sub affilaite so that you can receive parent kickback to increase your overall percentage. you can research which sites do this by going to their affiliate page and see if they support sub affiliates.

pros- you are completely responsible for your programs success. if you get large enough, you may be able to reach the unpublished % given by sites to 'large' affiliates.

cons- you start off at basement %'s and its hard to acquire players(if you are providing rakeback) at these levels. if you do want to reach higher % you need to be able to manage thousands of players. you will need a website to database and help manage your players, facilitate signup process, and provide statistic reporting. these are all optional features, but seem to be obsolete in any successful rb program today.

b) if you are just signing up a few friends, you can just refer them to rakeback sites and receive their refer a friend %'s. i have seen these range from 2-20%. alternatively, for a just a few friends, you can create your own accounts at all the rooms and provide rb to them.

pros- if i were only planning on doing this for my group of 10 poker playing friends, i would refer them to a site, and receive a cut of them with zero work.

cons- if you like marketing poker, and want to branch out past your small group, they are already comfortable at another rb site and you will have to get them to signup with you at rooms they dont already have accounts at.

c) get a rakeback skin. you can get all the functionality of raketracker.com skinned to fit seamlessly into your sites(existing or planned to be built). we have customized plans, we provide customer support, we make player payments, we provide you the site. you just find the players.

pros- access to market rates for rb. if you arent providing rb, you have the highest % available, higher than you can get from the poker sites. a fully developed, top of the line rakeback site, we take out the work, and let you market and find players. as some who have use service have said, why reinvent the wheel.

cons- if you do get to a very large size, you may lose a few % by our administrative cut we take. i can assure you, we have tiers set that foster growth and will not affect your bottom line. we have affilaites that outperform most of the sites listed in the rakeback directory. some of the sites listed in the directory are part of our skin network as well.

[morgant]

lets take one poker site and apply it to the above
some numbers and definitions:

absolute poker tiers for affilaites published on there site.
* 25% - up to $10,000
* 30% - $10,001 - $20,000
* 35% - $20,001 +

now i say signup as a sub affiliate. they earn 5% for first tier referrals, so if you signup under someone as a sub and you decide to split your referral income. say you produce $5k in mgr, you would receive (25% * 5k) + (2.5% * 5k) = 1375. if you dont sign up as a subaffilaite you would receive (25% * 5k) = 1250.
if you are providing rakeback, the market rate is 27%. which is a gross payout of $1350 (27% * 5k).
gross profit offering rb with parent = $25
gross profit offering rb without parent = -$100
gross profit if using a rakeback skin = (35% * 5k) - $1350 = $400


now, you dont have to offer market rates, but acquiring players will be harder, many arent aware of how much they can get, but people who are reading this forum surely are aware. that is a question you have to answer for yourself.
signing up under an affiliate and getting a rakeback skin, could have you earning 35% off the bat and netting the 8% difference from the first dollar in mgr and getting you the maximum offered by absolute poker.

the downside here is this. if you do get to 35% on your own, you will be missing the extra 2.5% kickback(or whatever amount you can negotiate with your parent) on the gross revenues you generate for the poker site. as i indicate in the post prior to this, if you get to that point, you could negotiate a change your gross percent to match that difference.

25k in mgr.

with parent kickback (35% * 25k) + (2.5% * 25k) = $9375
without parent (35% * 25k) = 8750
rakeback skin = (35%(negotiable at this high mgr) * 25k)= 8750

if providing rb at market rate, gross payout (27% * 25k) = $6750

gross profit if providing rb with parent = $2625
gross profit if providing rb without parent = $2000
gross profit with rb skin(negotiable) = $2000

hope this clears some things up about the different scenarios and puts some math behind it.