Chip leader with 30xBB ITM: am I supposed to exploit this?

[Superfluous Man]

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It is an interesting question, and in general I am quite high on the concept of implied equity. But this is not a situation where it really comes into play for me much. I'm just trying to accumulate here, and having an edge that even if you lose leaves you with 20 BBs is a great way to do it.

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I agree here. Even against a rather tight range of any ace, any king, any pair, any broadway, this call is marginally +cEV getting 3:2 to from the pot (42/58 according to 'stove). Winning here gives us a stack we can use to really push people around, losing here isn't the end of the world, we can still do a lot of things with the average 20x BB stack.

Also, remind me not to push into your BB light [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[FortunaMaximus]

Try running through all the ways the hand can run and do the equity on each option. Average them, maybe? Then make the determination.

Some concepts are counter-initutive. And it's a hard absorb.

[uclabruinz]

registrar, do you feel like you are good at restealing? Because if you think having 21 BBs late in a standard online tournament sucks, I really don't get where you are coming from.

You have the chance to accumulate without going busto, or being crippled, or even being concerned. Maybe the difference is that I feel very comfortable with having 21 BBs late in a tournament. What you "lose" in the bullying factor of having 30 BBs you can pretty much make up for by being in the "resteal" zone. I guess I feel I can maximize just about any stack in the late game so this is where I'm looking to grab every chip that I can however I can grab them.

[uclabruinz]

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Also, remind me not to push into your BB light [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I know you're joking, but there's also implied equity in having that image. I got a crapload of walks at my FT last night. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[weimoxer]

Here is my thought process if he pushes me with this hand. OBvs the reads on him and how I am viewed, then why is he pushing into me when I am going to call with VERY WIDE range with my bigstack, and its only costing me 8x bb to call. I am by no means putting him on a monster right away, but I am also not putting him on 8 10 or q 10. So I feel I am hardly ever ahead here.

I am assuming majority of the players left are thinking players, maybe not good thinking players, but thinking none the less. So I would think he is going to push with a tighter range than we give any 10x <= BB button or sb push, IMO. Unless he thinks big stack is uber tight. With him beratting betgo I am assuming this guy is a little on the tighter side. Not that Ax is good by any means, but if he was that upset on the qj os call, prob not a thinking player and tighter than some in same enviorment.

[registrar]

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registrar, do you feel like you are good at restealing? Because if you think having 21 BBs late in a standard online tournament sucks, I really don't get where you are coming from.

You have the chance to accumulate without going busto, or being crippled, or even being concerned. Maybe the difference is that I feel very comfortable with having 21 BBs late in a tournament. What you "lose" in the bullying factor of having 30 BBs you can pretty much make up for by being in the "resteal" zone. I guess I feel I can maximize just about any stack in the late game so this is where I'm looking to grab every chip that I can however I can grab them.

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OK, a few points here. Obviously, saying having a 21BB stack ITM kinda sucks is dumb. This is relative to having a 30BB stack, which, I imagine, is just great.

The crux of the matter is the expecation that we, as flawed players, receive from having a larger stack. Am I good at restealing, well, yes and no. I'm pretty good at picking spots but I'm not much good at picking myself up if it goes wrong, particularly when I succumb to my biggest leak: not being able to let a pot I've entered go.

This is why I was interested by NHFunkii's assertion that 'having a big stack' is overrated and why I posted that thread because, particularly in an ITM situation, I don't feel I get enough additional expectation to make marginally favourable gambles worthwhile. That was kind of an epiphany for me.

Wires were crossed with regard to the BSB that Betgo mentions because of the confusion over the EV of that particular hand. My feeling is that, at buy-ins of less than $100, an SB moves in with 9BBs with an above average hand. SB is rarely going to flip over a hand that QJ is beating, let alone dominating.

However, apart from that, I feel that the goal of accumulating chips without considering the overall increase in $ expecatation that that creates in relation to the risks involved should you lose chips in any given spot is a mistake and one that it is easy to make when reading this forum.

I'm not especially good at 'playing poker'. I suck at cash games over $100NL and I haven't a clue how to accumulate a big stack early because I'm lost post-flop. But for some reason, I rock at final tables (and STTs) and this has always been the case. I post here, mainly, because I want to know how to make more final tables. But, at my current level of poker development, I think, for me, I'm wiser holding onto my 30BB stack and 'surviving' until final table, once I'm in the money. Obviously, this doesn't mean that I should allow myself to get walked over, should give up clear edges because I fear for my chips etc. but it does mean that I'm not going to call off 1/3 of my stack when I think I'm almost always behind, which I do if I'm holding qjo and the SB pushes all his 9BBs in.

I'm perfectly happy to accept this is flawed thinking, but as yet, I haven't found that the mantra of +EV is helping me win tournaments and Betgo's hand is a sace in point. If we assume that calling here is +EV, I'm not convinced that that's enough of a reason for calling. At all times, we should consider what will help us, as an individual player, win the tournament.

[shaundeeb]

UCLA,

I totally disagree with your agreement in his call. There are many factors which lead me to a fold,

A: If we lose the stack to our right is now almost equal to us, Yes with gigabet stack therom that's ok but still if I am going to be restealing from someone I want to have more than 2BB if he actually wakes up with a hand.
B: I much rather spend those 10BBs where I am getting a much better price and calling a shove after an open. Because that situation comes up more often and I want people think I am calling reraises light when in truth I am not just that 1 time for advertising value.

I consider that one of those spots where it's better to pass up small +EV for the bigger picture.

[EssencE]

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I'm pretty gey when it comes to looking people up,

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As that the same as being GAY lol

[registrar]

FYI, 'gey' is currently the hippest slang among the degenerate youth of the Thames estuary. I'm down with the kids me.

[uclabruinz]

Shaun,

If you're going to ship chips, the best place is your direct right.

Passing up a +EV situation to wait for a better one when even if you lose you will still have 20 BBs is a very bad approach to late game tournament poker, IMHO.

Anyway, I think I have made my point as best I can.