Chip leader with 30xBB ITM: am I supposed to exploit this?

[betgo]

Someone posted about a week ago about a big stack being overrated. I think it is effective at higher buyin with deep money or on bubbles or anytime people are playing weak/tight. I have been in situations where a big stack was like a license to make chips, as you could just steal blinds with impunity. However, I don't know if there is that much you can do with a big stack in a typical online shallow money tournament. In some ways, it is easier to play a small stack, where you can steal push.

For example, last night I was briefly the chip leader in the $100 with 35 players left. I had 30xBB. Of course, I was expecting a big payout. I didn't play any hands for about one round. Then, SB open pushed for 9xBB. I called in BB with QJo. SB had A8o, berated me for calling with junk, and I lost the flip. Then I was an average stack. Open pushed with KQo and 14xBB from hijack and lost to AKo and was out in 18th. I made a couple of marginally favorable percentage plays and lost and no more big stack, no more stack.

Am I supposed to be bullying people with the big stack, or is that a concept from a different tournament situation?

[FortunaMaximus]

Don't overstep it. Sure, your excess chips are worth less. So you can either splash with a wider flop draw-worthy range.

Or you can jack 'em in reserve, use your core stack + a % and go into a equal or ahead of the 2nd-3rd stack table mindset.

I'd say 10-12 BB is a safe margin above that. Any excess above that, just ignore for hand decisions.

[CybrPunk]

Calling with QJo doesn't exactly constitute bullying. After all of your past success I'm surprised you don't understand this concept.

Bullying means raising more to steal blinds, reraising light raisers who have left themselves room to fold comfortably and generally putting people to the decision to play for their whole stack when they clearly don't want to. A guy who shoves in 9bb is already willing to go to the felt so calling with a marginal hand like Queen-high doesn't fit in here. When you lose the hand you can't bully as much plus you have the added negative effect of completely ruining your image. Now you have to tighten up considerably for at least a few orbits at the risk of being looked up by more marginal holdings.

On the bright side if you happen to pickup a monster afterward you're more likely to get paid off.

KQo isn't a hand I would recommend shoving 14BB in with. You can definitely raise and fold to a reraise from a player in the blinds that covers you.

All things being considered I really don't like how you played here and don't see this as a winning strategy.

[FortunaMaximus]

It's a valid big-stack concern. Dixie Flatline, man. He jacks too deep and pays the price. And it's not a wonderful price.

Yeah, the extra chips are worth less. Thing is, you tend to devalue your entire stack at times when you do that. It can get ugly. Ask Annulus.

Flipside is a big stack allows you to pass on the marginally favorable percentage plays 'cause one of the things it does is allow you to wait for a less marginal play.

And, dude, sometimes you play AQs like 44 in EP/MP. While that's valid, you gotta realize the stacks aren't deep enough for something that fancy. Those calls are the ones you shouldn't be making with your stack size. Especially when you're juggling +$EV and +cEV considerations that late.

Just work the maths for various spots and stacks if you play the same tournaments repeatedly. Then remember them or if it's not your strength, use visual cues.

[uclabruinz]

I don't see how your example has anything at all to do with bullying with a big stack.

[registrar]

I'm pretty gey when it comes to looking people up, as in the BSB you described. My opinion is that you sacrifice much more by losing 9BBs here than you gain by adding 9BBs.

From what I understand of your style Betgo, it is governed by EV calculations and I always find these useful and helpful. However, considering the EV on any one hand, to the exclusion of other considerations, has damaged my natural game I feel. I've just been looking through a HH of a $50 I won and there are a lot of -EV folds I made and somewhat fewer -EV moves. A lot of them are probably just bad but, with a few, I remember clearly what I was thinking and I believe that is where I find such edge as I have.

For me, the big stack is useful because you can two barrel on a read. You can raise with junk from ep and fire many flops unmade because you're putting the villain to a decision for his tournament life. You create the value through other people's fear. OTOH, you can also eshew marginally +EV gambles (I'll get flamed for this) with a big stack because, really, at the end of the day, it's better to have a big stack than not and it's much easier to recognise clear edges when you have a big stack and the risk/reward of exploiting those edges is more in your favour.

Regarding the big stack, you know a good player when they mainatin a big stack, acquired early, through to final table. Those players are pretty rare but, from my observations, they only gamble with a relatively small percentage of their stack and seem to back down when faced with strength for a substantial portion of their chips. The value comes from fear. If someone is pushing into you, they are past fear. If they three-bet you, they are past fear because they probably have the best hand. While you can run a range and calculate odds, I think this is a situation where you can, within reason, let a marginal +EV edge go. Win the hand, cool, you have a monster stack and this will get you to FT. However, it's not going to make much difference to your chances of winning. Lose the hand, and you've just made it a lot harder to get to FT, and doubled up an opponent who had told you pretty clearly that he had the best hand.

I'm not sure I'm making myself clear here. I suppose what I'm saying is that a big stack, in addition to being able to take more than your share of blinds etc. gives you the time to find and exploit good spots. Most of us here on the MTT forum are not 'great' poker players. Marginal edges are difficult to identify and difficult to exploit so I think, for most of us, having a big stack gives us the leisure to wait for better spots.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but this is my latest thinking on the issue.

[weimoxer]

Having a big stack in this situation does not give license to call with a hand that could be easily 3-1 or at best a flip, I dont think you are ahead here hardly ever. Use your stack to raise hands in specific positions and pick up blinds (unless your table is aggro), or call all ins if pot odds call after a pre raise, but also dont be afraid to fold knowing you can still buy blinds and fold without feeling crippled.

Calling in that position with qj os is not a favorable position, even though its a race, but your lucky it was only a race. Take those 8x bb you just used and imagine being able to raise up 3 pre pots and maybe taking down the blinds 2 of the 3, and maybe even seeing a flop on the 3rd. I like those odds better than at best racing for 8x bb IMO.

[uclabruinz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty gey when it comes to looking people up, as in the BSB you described. My opinion is that you sacrifice much more by losing 9BBs here than you gain by adding 9BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this vehemently. When you are faced with calling a shove that will leave you with 21 BBs even if you lose, you better make it every time if you think the call is +EV.

[NoahSD]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how your example has anything at all to do with bullying with a big stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

[FortunaMaximus]

He wants to learn how to, man. Lead the way, one of ya.