4/180 JJ- Lost on the Turn

Jeff76 · #1 09-20-2006, 07:00 PM

Ok, turn bet felt like it came from out of left field and I had no idea how to respond. Pretty sure I messed it up good, so I'd like some feedback.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t1730)
SB (t3675)
BB (t5365)
UTG (t1470)
UTG+1 (t6506)
Hero (t5205)
MP2 (t2450)
MP3 (t2048)
CO (t1170)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, 1 fold, MP3 calls t200, 3 folds, BB calls t100.

Flop: (t850) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t450, MP3 folds, BB calls t450, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (t1750) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t500, Hero calls t500.

River: (t2750) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t900, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t3650

Snarf · #2 09-20-2006, 07:19 PM

folds

Villian has AK+

I check behind at this point in the game usually.
I don't mind the bet too much, though.

you gotta beware the PFR check/call flop lead bricked turn line.

FWIW, I'd dump KQ ez here.
(If I happen to call the raise with it)

Geoff Lightning · #3 09-21-2006, 12:49 AM

He completely changed gears from check calling to betting once the 2 hit. The 2 is not a scare card, so one of three things are happening: he planned to call and bluff the turn, he wanted to keep you in the pot and hopes you'll stay in, or the two actually helped (two pair). The second has got to be far and away the most likely scenario.

FortunaMaximus · #4 09-21-2006, 12:53 AM

Toss out TPTK. Better than that.

Mi_T_Sharp · #5 09-21-2006, 02:52 AM

I know it's not the question, but I really don't like just calling the UTG+1 min bet with JJ, given your stack sizes. You should definately re-raise him here to isolate him and maybe one other player. You don't want to create a multiway pot like you did OOP with JJ. Doing so is a good way to get stacked here. I wouldn't mind at all if everyone else folded and I got UTG+1 allin PF for his 1500. It's a nice little pot to take down.

SilverLining1 · #6 09-21-2006, 10:25 AM

I think that a fair emount of time, villain is trying to represent a King while pricing himself well for the flush draw. He missed th draw, but being that you just called the turn, he feels that he can represent the king. I would say that you can call this and feel that 25% of the time he shows AdXd or something along those lines, and you take down a nice pot.

If he is a true donk, he may be trying to do this with AT as well. I know I have many times.

Other times, you'll see KJ or some crap, but hey, at 3:1, worth the risk.

Nnnnnneeeeeeeeeeh...

A'

Soulman · #7 09-21-2006, 11:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I know it's not the question, but I really don't like just calling the UTG+1 min bet with JJ, given your stack sizes. You should definately re-raise him here to isolate him and maybe one other player. You don't want to create a multiway pot like you did OOP with JJ. Doing so is a good way to get stacked here. I wouldn't mind at all if everyone else folded and I got UTG+1 allin PF for his 1500. It's a nice little pot to take down.

[/ QUOTE ]

durkahdurkah · #8 09-21-2006, 11:54 AM

BB's line really looks like a set of 66 right now.

Of course, there is a ton more out there that has you crushed right now. I wouldn't put a penny more into the pot on the turn, be glad you got away relatively cheap.

Oh, and re-raise to something like t700 PF, you'll know better where you are at before you get here.

SilverLining1 · #9 09-21-2006, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB's line really looks like a set of 66 right now.

Of course, there is a ton more out there that has you crushed right now. I wouldn't put a penny more into the pot on the turn, be glad you got away relatively cheap.

Oh, and re-raise to something like t700 PF, you'll know better where you are at before you get here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez. BB just called preflop and there is a diamond and straight draw out there. OP has shown weakness the entire hand and is now getting 3:1 on the turn. I've seen these "let's call, ok, now let's bet a little for odds, now let's bet a little more and see if he can bluff" from players with decent stack sizes all the time. Now, I'm not saying that folding isn't the best decision here, but it's much closer than you guys are giving it credit for. I think that the turn call is just fine, and I think that the river call wouldn't be terrible either.

durkahdurkah · #10 09-21-2006, 03:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB's line really looks like a set of 66 right now.

Of course, there is a ton more out there that has you crushed right now. I wouldn't put a penny more into the pot on the turn, be glad you got away relatively cheap.

Oh, and re-raise to something like t700 PF, you'll know better where you are at before you get here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez. BB just called preflop and there is a diamond and straight draw out there. OP has shown weakness the entire hand and is now getting 3:1 on the turn. I've seen these "let's call, ok, now let's bet a little for odds, now let's bet a little more and see if he can bluff" from players with decent stack sizes all the time. Now, I'm not saying that folding isn't the best decision here, but it's much closer than you guys are giving it credit for. I think that the turn call is just fine, and I think that the river call wouldn't be terrible either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are there a lot of people who play draws like this? Seems kind of a strange line for one. I think we see things like Kx or a set here WAY WAY more often than a draw.

OP's flop bet was sort of weak, but it was also into 3 players. If this were me, I wouldn't find that too weak. And we were lead into on the turn, and villian gave us great odds on a call. We were then lead into on the river AGAIN after being the aggressor on the flop and calling his lead on the turn, and AGAIN villian gave us pretty good odds.

I still think this should have folded, there's no way we are good 25% of the time here IMO.