How Do Non-Rational Players Succeed in Poker?

[aejones]

some people just guess well

[Requin]

I don't see how the only valid intuition is an instantaneous one. Isn't going to sleep with a problem in mind and waking up with a solution a prime example of your subconscious coming up with a delayed answer?

[TxRedMan]

I think that if you really consider what you just said, you'll find subtle contradictions that will answer some of your questions.

Afterall, there is such a thing as an analytical subconscious, and an illogical conscious mind. Vice versa.

I believe that the greatest players have the ability to perform thought processes in their conscious and subconscious minds that happen so fast that they themselves would be unable to explain to you how they reached a specific conclusion.

An example...I know that person 'A' shows a specific emotion or characteristic through body language and voice tones. Consciously, I recognize this. Subconsciously, I watch this person so closely that I file away other characeristics and habits, and assign a grouping to people like this.

Later on, whether it be in day to day life or at the poker table, I make associations between people I meet and their behaviors, etc.,. and make judgements based on these things.

That, is my explanation for 'feel'.

[yvesaint]

Z Z FUKIN Z FOR ALL OF THIS

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how the only valid intuition is an instantaneous one. Isn't going to sleep with a problem in mind and waking up with a solution a prime example of your subconscious coming up with a delayed answer?

[/ QUOTE ]

You make it seem as though this happens all the time and is such a commonplace example that it can provide a reductio against my point. I really have no idea why you think this is so common.

Also, my point was just that I think people are misapplying the lessons of Gladwell's book here. more thoughts on this tomorrow when sober

[Prevaricator]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how the only valid intuition is an instantaneous one. Isn't going to sleep with a problem in mind and waking up with a solution a prime example of your subconscious coming up with a delayed answer?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you prove to me that sleep is 100% subconscious and also equivalent to zoning out for a few seconds in the middle of a hand, then sure.

[Requin]

Obviously I can't. I was just giving an example of a situation when the intuition derived from the subconscious isn't immediate. Nothing more, nothing less.

[cero_z]

Hi Prev,
[ QUOTE ]
and cero z i think you are confused on the idea of subconscious mind. in this case we are relying on experience. it thinks faster and more efficiently when dealing with decisions which are similar to past experiences, but when faced with something brand new you cant just blank out and then be struck with an epiphany of the correct move. you just have to think it out.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is just flat-out wrong. You can certainly be struck with an epiphany of the correct move, and if you are, it's because your subconsciousness has filtered and processed the necessary factors to make the best decision. I really don't know what you mean by "brand new," anyway. It's poker, and there are always going to be lots of familiar elements.

FF, Blink did focus on instant reactions, and for that matter, it's not a good piece of science by any means (basically all anecdotal "evidence" that's open to a wide range of interpretations). However, it also addresses the subconscious mind in general, and many other books and studies have, as well. The idea that our brains are processing much more subconsciously than consciously is not controversial, right? The real question, and the one that I think FF, Prev, Bruiser et al. would disagree with me about, is, "to what extent can we tap into the subconscious, and how much can it help us?"

[psyduck]

Can someone please post a link to that 64s hand where Samo rivered a pair and was thinking about calling his opponent's third barrel? I can't find it.

This was SUCH an amazing thread. Goes a lot with stuff I learnt in BLINK.

[tilted]

[ QUOTE ]
I completely forgot about this moment until just now. The subconscious mind strikes again!

Roughly two years ago, I was sitting in my dorm at Maryland, and my friend Justin Simpson was watching me multi-table $200+15 SNGs. I was telling him some of my thought processes, and on one hand, something came out of my mouth, and I had no clue where it came from.

It was a hand during the first blind level (relatively deep stacks), and we were on the river. He checked to me, and I said out loud, "Does he fold tens if I bet here? Nah." I checked behind with my no-pair, and he took the pot with his tens.

What struck me as odd, was that I wasn't concentrating on the hand at all. I was looking at other tables and explaining stuff to Justin while this hand was going on. Despite that, I somehow knew he had TT.

I kind of shrugged that situation off. In hindsight, I wish I would have really stopped to think about how I came up with my opponent's hand. I would probably be a better player for it today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, this applies to me sooo much. alot of intelligent things that i say come out of my mouth without me even realizing what I just said when I occasionally look back on what it is I just said it kind of amazes me.

another thing to note is that I am pretty sure that I have severe add and am not articulate at all except for the few times when my subconscious mind does all the talking for me without me realizing what I am even saying until afterwards