Kansas Board of Education

[goldcowboy]

I may be out of line with this, because this is going to be a request for help. But I ask the moderators to consider the cause before they react. The Kansas State Board of Education is currently controlled by radical religious conservatives, who hold a 6-4 majority. Half of the seats on the board are up for election this year, and four of those five seats are currently held by the radicals. Among the steps the radficals have taken recently are:

1. Adoption of science standards that allow for supernatural explanation of natural phenomena (in other words, opening the door for creationism/intelligent design to be taught in science classes)

2. Proposed an opt-in standard for sex education classes, so that parents would have to take the step of actually requesting that their children be allowed to take sex ed classes

3. Have explored the possibility of getting actively involved in censorship of school library books

4. Have hired a Commissioner of Education with no training in the educational field, minimal managerial experience, and a demonstrated bias against public education.

With four of the radicals up for election this fall, we have an opportunity to replace them with moderates who will restore the board's focus on quality public education rather than pursuit of an extremist social agenda. This is not just a Kansas issue. The creationists are very active nationwide, and are spearheaded by The Discovery Institute in Seattle. Their successes in Kansas and a few other places advance their nationwide objective.

A group of individuals have formed a political action committee for the sole purpose of replacing the incumbent radicals with moderates. We had some initial success in the August primary and were able to defeat two of the radical incumbents. Theoretically that will give the moderates at least a 6-4 majority when the new board convenes in January, but we are concerned about a write-in campaign by one or both of the defeated radicals. We also would like to pick off at least one of the radicals who survived the August primary, and we have very strong Democrat opponents running against them. This is important to strengthen the control by moderates and insure that the radicals cannot regain control during the next election two years from now.

This is where 2+2ers can help. Our PAC, Kansas Alliance for Education, has mapped out an ambitious campaign on behalf of the two Democrat challengers, including direct mail, radio advertising, and door-to-door campaigning. To do this we need contributions very soon. To date we have received contributions from nearly 1000 individuals from throughout Kansas but also from folks in numerous other states who are concerned about these issues. We need and solicit the help of anyone who shares our concerns. Contributions may be made by PayPal via our website, www.ksalliance.org Contributions may also be made by mail to Kansas Alliance for Education, P.O. Box 615, Johnson, KS 67855

[MelchyBeau]

I thought they were already replaced.

[natedogg]

I support the Kansas School Board and I really hope they succeed in turning Kansas public schools into religious indoctrination camps.

natedogg

[iron81]

Melchy,
They were replaced a couple years ago. But the conservatives came back and won another election in the last year or two.

OP,
This is a classic example of how the right wing prefers dogma to science and truth. If you needed another reason to vote Democrat, there's people like this in your state too. But I wonder when the last time we got a spam post in politics was.

Natedogg,

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I support the Kansas School Board and I really hope they succeed in turning Kansas public schools into religious indoctrination camps.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a classic example of how the right wing prefers dogma to science and truth. If you needed another reason to vote Democrat, there's people like this in your state too. But I wonder when the last time we got a spam post in politics was.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they are the majority. If 80% of the people in a certain school district are right wing whackos who want to teach religion, creation and abstinence, why shouldn't their schools, which their taxes are paying for, provide this for their children?

Answer this without suggesting the need for vouchers or privatization.

[iron81]

You're forgetting that I am the liberal version of a statist, so I hate vouchers and privatization.

The two reasons why I would say tough nuggets to the 80% if I were an elected official are 1. It violates the establishment clause and 2. Creationism is factually wrong and abstinence and abstinence-only and Christian religious teaching are colosally stupid and essentially wrong. It is a school's job to impart knowledge, not pander to the archaic beliefs of the population, even a majority.

Edit,
3rd reason: Independent of the establishment clause, it is wrong to force your religious beliefs on the other 20%

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
You're forgetting that I am the liberal version of a statist, so I hate vouchers and privatization.

The two reasons why I would say tough nuggets to the 80% if I were an elected official are 1. It violates the establishment clause and 2. Creationism is factually wrong and abstinence and abstinence-only and Christian religious teaching are colosally stupid and essentially wrong. It is a school's job to impart knowledge, not pander to the archaic beliefs of the population, even a majority.

Edit,
3rd reason: Independent of the establishment clause, it is wrong to force your religious beliefs on the other 20%

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

[HSB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a classic example of how the right wing prefers dogma to science and truth. If you needed another reason to vote Democrat, there's people like this in your state too. But I wonder when the last time we got a spam post in politics was.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they are the majority. If 80% of the people in a certain school district are right wing whackos who want to teach religion, creation and abstinence, why shouldn't their schools, which their taxes are paying for, provide this for their children?

Answer this without suggesting the need for vouchers or privatization.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is not that they want to teach creationism. The problem is that they want to teach creationism in science classes at the expense of things that are concrete verifiable science.

Why should they be stopped from doing this?

1) The harm it does to their kids.
2) The harm it does to the minority of children whose parents don't want this crap taught.
3) Public money shouldn't be spent indoctrinating people in specific religious principles.
4) It's not science. If you want to teach something in science classes it should be science. You shouldn't teach french in science classes. You shouldn't teach history in science classes. You should teach science in science classes.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
The two reasons why I would say tough nuggets to the 80% if I were an elected official

[/ QUOTE ]

But you're not (nor is anyone like you). The religious whackos in my scenario are likely to elect other religious whackos (which is what OP is currently upset about.) That is the inevitable result of the government structure outlined in the same constitution that you're referencing.

[ QUOTE ]
1. It violates the establishment clause

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VERY debateable. I learned about religion in my public school (we learned the basic info on Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.) Does that count as "pushing beliefs?" Moreover, I'd like to point out that most of my teachers were Christian (as were the students) and had very Christian overtones. Whether their natural biases were sufficient to constitute a violation of the establishment clause (of which, the criteria for determining are highly controversial)? How do you propose to enforce the wall between church and state without wastefully intruding on teaching sessions?

[ QUOTE ]
2. Creationism is factually wrong and abstinence and abstinence-only and Christian religious teaching are colosally stupid and essentially wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Statism is factually ineffective in the development of civilization and socialism is colosally stupid and essentially wrong. Therefore, all children should be forced to study the works of Murray Rothbard and Ludwig Von Mises.

Before you tell me that most people disagree with that statement, remember that you are an American who believes in evolution.

[ QUOTE ]
3rd reason: Independent of the establishment clause, it is wrong to force your religious beliefs on the other 20%

[/ QUOTE ]

But it's perfectly ok to take their money.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that they want to teach creationism in science classes at the expense of things that are concrete verifiable science.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 300 years, the stuff we teach in science class today will be a joke. Why teach it now?

[ QUOTE ]
Why should they be stopped from doing this?

1) The harm it does to their kids.
2) The harm it does to the minority of children whose parents don't want this crap taught.
3) Public money shouldn't be spent indoctrinating people in specific religious principles.
4) It's not science. If you want to teach something in science classes it should be science. You shouldn't teach french in science classes. You shouldn't teach history in science classes. You should teach science in science classes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Irrelevent. It's your word against the Christians'. An even greater number of people think that their children should not be forced to learn that the Wonders of Creation somehow happened by random chance** Regardless of whether it's "right" or not, the current system grants the enforcement student curriculums to elected officials. How do you plan on stopping them without creating more problems than you solve? How do you get a Christian public school teacher from not teaching biased material when no one's monitoring him/her?




**I'm an atheist btw, just playing Devil's Advocate.