Against Live Poker Ethics or Not?

invulse · #1 09-15-2006, 04:23 PM

This situation happened to me about 2 months ago, but I have never really heard a definitive answer from anyone about this.

I was sitting at a $100/$200 2/5NL Live game with about $600 in front of me. A guy was sitting at the table who was just donking off hundreds of dollars at the table. He was up about $80 on his latest buyin to about $280. I was delt pocket aces and the flop came out KcXcXc, I followed up my preflop raise, he moved all-in, and I called. After I called I looked directly at him and asked him if he had the flush, and he said yes. the last two cards were delt and were blanks, and I almost mucked my hand, but since it was the first good hand I had really had all day i decided to do a 'show the table how much bs this is' move and threw them down face up. The dealer almost grabbed my hand to throw it in the muck since he also heard the guy say he had a flush, when the guy flipped over KdQd.

Is this against ethics to lie about your hand after your allin and have been called? Since then I've never thrown my hand away until I've made sure the person had what they have said, has this happened to anyone else? And if you mucked your hand what did you do after it? The reason I ask this is because I've come across this situation alot in live games since the first time, and I'm not sure whether or not I should be saying something to them about it.

bng101 · #2 09-15-2006, 06:07 PM

I have seen it done in both live and tourny play.

From what I understand of the rules is this:
You can lie about your hand, but can not tell the truth about what you have.(don't know about after the allin stuff). And, if your hand touches the muck, then your hand is dead.

I have ask this person about it. His reply is this "it's my job to win the pot anyway possible and it's his job to make sure his hand is dead, before throwing it away"

MatusowIsBald · #3 09-15-2006, 06:52 PM

If it was just you and him in the showdown don't you both flip your cards over after you called his all-in bet? I don't play live much so maybe I'm missing something. To answer your question though I don't know that it's unethical, but it certainly makes him look like a [censored]. I've never been one to lie about my hand. If I feel like telling the truth I do, otherwise I just don't say anything. Or I may go with the ever-popular "I have 5 aces" or something smartazz like that.

Colima420 · #4 09-16-2006, 01:52 PM

It is against poker etiquette to do this once all the bets are in and no one else can do anything.

However, I don't see what the big deal is. You should just never believe anyone ever for two reasons. One is that people like this guy will straight up lie, and the second is that some people mistakenly (and honestly) think they have a straight for example, and won't realize that they didn't have it until showdown when the players or the dealer points out that there is no straight.

"Cards speak", and just see for yourself what the other guy has. If you see that he has you beat, then you can calmy muck. But don't ever muck just because the guy says he has x or y hand.

Colima420

davekngs · #5 09-16-2006, 02:37 PM

I have thrown away a hand that should have won the side pot before and it sucks more than anything. It was some stupid chinese guy who thought he was really funny I could have glassed him on the spot I was so angry.

moral of the story is a lot of people are a*sholes so trust no ones word at the poker table

slcseas · #6 09-16-2006, 06:03 PM

If you are getting all your chips in the pot and taking the other guys word for what his hand is, ethics are the least of your worries.

Besides, any person who lies about their hand when a showdown is mandatory (that is the rule at 90% of B&M's) is being unethical, just an idiot and a douchebag.

Louie Landale · #7 09-18-2006, 01:03 AM

Yes, never throw the hand away until you see his cards and verify them. Tell the floor he ran an angle.

You should also never let go of you hand until you HAVE the pot pushed at you. Don't toss yourwinner as soon as you see the loser toss. Eventually that will come back to bite you.

The worst thing I do everny now and then is turn over my bust face up, announce 'read'em and weep' and keep moving may cards around, hoping someone will mis-read it and toss their hand.

- Louei