How to approach loose high ante games

[HarmonicaMan]

This is a serious question - not just a hypothetical situation.
Stud-hi only.
The stakes range from $0.25/$0.50 to $3/$6
Whatever the big bet, the ante is 1/4 of that. The bring-in is equivalent to the small bet. So $3/$6 has an ante of $1.50 and a BI of $3.
Before you tell me to find a site with a better structure, consider this: the games are very, very loose and very, very passive.
The typical 4th street percentage is 60-85% for 8-handed, and 75-100% for 5-handed. Players will call bets and raises up to about 5th. Average pot size is about 12BB(true pot won - as opposed to Party's including any uncalled bets).
How should I adjust on 3rd and 4th street??

[preiserone]

Play pretty much anything and hope to hit, if betting will make people fold do it, if it won't chase your draws and make them pay. Your getting 5 to 1 calling the bring in at a full table with no raise.

Its pretty much a crapshoot with ante that high.

[SimonAllan]

Raise more from early positions if this will help to limit the field - including high bag hands, three flushes with a couple of big cards and big three-straights. Limp more from later positions, especially if you can be disciplined enough to fold fourth if you don't catch perfect. If you are very unlikely to be raised, I would play any live pair, any three-flush/three-straight with two or less dead cards, any three-flush with straight potential or two big cards, and any high bag. There is a section in 7CSFAP on playing weak hands on third that may be useful, and I think there's also a section on high ante games. It is written about high limit games, so some of the advice may not be appropriate. I would still be aiming to play no more than 1 hand in 3, and I would expect big swings.

[Andy B]

Well, as long as it's a serious question.

You should not loosen up as much as you might think. A lot of the reason that you loosen up in a high-ante game is that your implied odds are very good for a lot of hands. Having the bring-in set at a full bet cuts down your implied odds drastically. Also, because the game is very loose, the bottom line is that you're going to have to show down the best hand in order to win, so stick to decent starters.

I do think you should be more aggressive than you would be in an ordinary $3/6 game. Here, you can confront your opponents with two bets cold, which will hopefully clear some of them out if you're on a big pair.

I will say that playing in a game like the one you describe may skew your perception of how stud is played. This may be a hindrance as you move up in limits.

And I will also go on record as saying that this is the stupidest damned structure I've ever heard of. The standard casino stud structures have evolved over time into something that works. Why these sites feel the need to screw around with them is beyond me.

[HarmonicaMan]

Thanks for the replies.
OK, I'm re-learning fast - very fast! Don't get me wrong - I know stud. I played stud exclusively years ago. But took a loooong break from poker and came back back 18 months ago via the internet(and of course hold'em).

My past experience never had anything like this. It is incredibly loose, and I didn't want to pursue a bad strategy obviously.

Andy is quite right by saying that I shouldn't loosen up too much on 3rd. The leakage in antes will be covered by the larger pots I drag in. The frequency of wins will decrease due to more opponents, but these players do chase bad draws. People call when your doorcard pairs and their cards are counterfeited amongst each other!!!

Also, board reading is proving to be extra-crucial:
More players on later streets = more seen cards = more correct folds/calls/raises from me.

[jon_1van]

Where is this game.

Please tell me. It sounds like my cup of tea.


As for how to play it. I don't like the "get tight because you must showdown a winner" advice.

My advise is :: Take a hand like A(Kx) in early position and use the BI as leverage to push others out. Take any legit or quasi legit hand and push others out when you are in EP.

Be more reluctant to call in Late position with a crap hand, yeah you are getting nice odds, but you also have a bunch of people to beat.

The money is made in these games by forcing others out when you are in EP. This will give you a big share of the antes in the long run. And thats where the money is made in these games. Lets face it, as long as your hand has some outs, and the pots are 12BB...you can't make large errors by calling down. So make other people fold WHENEVER you have a chance.

[HarmonicaMan]

jon, you can't force anyone out by raising in this game. Not until 5th or 6th. Remember you're seeing way more cards by 5th than in most stud games. This is where you fold, raise or call with massive +EV w.r.t your opponents.

[jon_1van]

You said the game was passive.

How do you know people wouldn't fold for 2 bets cold? You should at least try it. I know you said the game was loose, but have you seen people react to many raises?


WHERE IS THE GAME???