experienced trny player, trying cash games, need help

[Skimo]

Howdy out there yall. Jsut a little about myself, been playing for about 4 years. Sticking mostly to trny's. Sit and goes as well as MTT. Have become a student of the game and have read most of the "must read" poker books out there. Have jsut found this site about 3 months ago and after alot of reading here decided to post to say "Hi". Soooo, like Ive said i have played ALOT of poker through turnys, but now am tying cash games and am getting burnt. I mostly play NL turnys and figurd I could make the switch to cash games. My problem is that I keep getting burnt at the cash tables. Now I do know that one of my biggest problems is a bankroll. Right now Im at about $500, and am trying to clear some easy bounues to build it, but the problem is that every time I buikd a decienat stack and the NL tables I blow it all on one hand that 90% of the time is the suck-out of the year. Ive tried to play tight-aggriseve, Ive tried to fold fold fold. fit or fold, whatever you call it. But still cant manage to HOLD ON to the money I make. Reciently I have tried some Limit taleks and have had some success. What could I do to become a bettor NL cash game player? Im trying these forums for the first time so sorry for the long post. Any info would be appriceated, thank-you Skimo

[Texibus]

Best way to hold on to your money is to keep within your bank roll requirements. Only play a limit if you have about 10-15 buy ins if you think you're a smarter than average player, more if you only think you're average.

[Wabbits]

What limit are you playing? It makes a difference.

[Vince.]

If you have a $500 bankroll, the highest NL game you should be playing is 25NL (0.10/0.25c blinds). The general rule for playing NL cash games is to have 20 buyins for the level you are playing, although many including myself would reccomend more buyins (30-40) especially as you move up. For 25NL your $500 should be more than fine. If you really want to play cash, stick with one type of game (such as 25NL) and don't spend your bankroll playing SNG's or other types of games. Focus on one game, study it, and keep getting better. Bankroll management may be the most important skill in becoming a successful player.

[engineer_mba]

Hi Skimo,

First, welcome to 2+2.

Second, I think the situation is very common for tourney players. Actually, that situation is how you play tourneys. You keep building a stack until you go bust. You either win the tourney or go broke.

However, in cash games going broke means you don't get any prize money. You leave with nothing, but there is a completely different way of looking at it. In tourneys, you are forced to continue playing until you go bust. In cash games, you can take your profits and quit at any time.

When I first started building my bankroll, I would often utilize this strategy in cash games. I would buy in for table max, and leave when I hit would a certani size stack. Frequently, I would wait a few seconds and simply return to the same table with the max buy again. This allows you to squirrel away your profits.

As far as game size, I am by no means an expert on this. But my recommendations would be to start small, very small perhaps ($5-$10 buy in). There are some significant nuances from NL tourney to NL cash. As an example, the blinds never raise AND people are allowed to reload whenever they want. Also in cash games, you only win money by playing hands opposed to SNG or MTTs in which you can win a better prize by sitting back and let the players eliminate each other.

Just my two cents,

Leo

[Skimo]

ive mostly been playing .25-.50 limit to clear the bonuses more of a bigger bankroll when I hit them main sites I havent hit now for the most on my bonus. I am trying to play some 25NL but I keep loosing my buy in and am putting my depoit at that site at risk, hence why I had to go to a lower limit table.
thank-you for the responces

[Thundercat32]

[ QUOTE ]
When I first started building my bankroll, I would often utilize this strategy in cash games. I would buy in for table max, and leave when I hit would a certani size stack. Frequently, I would wait a few seconds and simply return to the same table with the max buy again. This allows you to squirrel away your profits.

[/ QUOTE ]


Excuse me? this is not only against the rules, but no poker site will allow you to do this that I know of. If you return to the same table within (I think) an hour you are required to post the same amount of money you left with. It is unethical but you are allowed to take money off of one table and move to another table for the max buyin but not the same table.

[Thundercat32]

Skimo, if you are losing at $25NL and you have been playing for 4 years I have some serious questions about what kind of skill you've acquired in those 4 years. I'm not intending this an insult, I'm just saying $25NL is not high stakes at the Bellagio here, you can beat these guys, they suck.

As far as tourney differences to cash games. The main ones I can think of are

1) Obvious but you never want to put in a position raise on the button with crap like 7-4o to steal the blinds. You may do this once in awhile to throw your opponents off, but don't make raises with weak holdings just to steal the blinds.

2) If you have the odds to call you are calling in a cash game. In a tournament even if you have AA there maybe a time you'd fold preflop, like for instance if you were at the final table of a tournament and you have AA but 4 players have gone all in, in front of you, now just by folding 2 or more players maybe eliminated and you move up in the pay structure instead of risking being eliminated yourself. In cash game you would never fold AA preflop. Similarly, if you're in a tournament with a flush draw and 4 opponents in the pot you may elect to fold and wait for a better spot, in a cash game you would always stay in the pot as long as you are getting the right odds.

3) this one maybe more overlooked, in a tournament if you fold too many hands and are too patient you'll find yourself shortstacked and facing elimination before you know it. A cash game gives you the luxury of being much more patient for better starting hands, you'll never need to shove with King high, you could go 4 hours and never play a hand and it be the correct thing to do. Patience pays at cash games.

[4_2_it]

Skimo, if you are struggling with NL$25, post some hands in the SSNL forum, or better yet, take a look at the forum stickies. They contain numerous posts that should help you understand many of the concepts you need to be successful in SSNL games.

[Skimo]

thanxs guys, I do consider myself to be a very good player, the only problem is my bankroll right now, its not that I cant beat the guys and the 24NL tables, its that whenever I am doing well and am up I get a huge beat that wipes out that whole secion. I have only been consentrating on cash games the last two months or so. Which for me is a fundamental shift in my game, since I was an exclusive turny player, now I know I am commiting the cardinal sin of being underfunded for that limit, but I am not going to be forever. I just wanted to say "hi" to the community and get some feedback from the famous "2 plus 2 ers" out there.
Thanx all