My c/r atempt failed to protect my two pair, Now what?

[ontiltsoon]

Pacific Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (10SB, 5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5BB, 5 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9BB, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 3-bets</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB caps</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 15BB

No reads on both players, just that they are paying the jackpot bet.

My intention was to c/r the the flop to protect from flush draws if somebody in LP bet, that failed and gave a free card. I supose Turn Bet is standard. What the hell am I suposed to do on the river? Fold to MP3 3Bet I supose...

[Xhad]

I know this is easy to say since we all know you lost but I really can't see a call being profitable as of MP3's 3bet. It's impossible that that 2 helped both Villains (and the only semi-reasonable hands it filled were A2s and 22) so I have to conclude that someone was slowplaying on the turn. Every slowplaying candidate except QT and (from BB) Q4s is beating you, and more importantly, there are TWO villains so they both have to be at the absolute bottom of their ranges for you to win.

[krubban]

You can never protect this hand from flushdraws, only backdoor flushdraws and you don't mind them calling anyway.

I'd just bet the flop and hope to get raised.
I also think you can safely fold to the river 3-bet.

Is this a standard preflop call? I would fold it unless i was in the BB.

[NWCougar]

IMO
Fold preflop
Bet flop hoping preflop raiser raises you and pushes out MP3 and Button.

[Man of Means]

Assuming you call preflop to begin with...and I wouldn't:

The relative position of the preflop raiser is NOT conducive to your checkraise idea. If PFR was in late position, your plan is sound, but what your c/r would accomplish here is to trap the field, not protect your hand.

Your best hope for "protection" is to bet and hope MP2 raises. Otherwise, a two pair hand is still strong enough to bet the flop for value.

On the river, you lose. Fold for the 2 BB's.

[phosix]

i think the pf call is neutral. and the river is a fold against that feild. call the raise but a rr is dangerous.

[mjkidd]

Well, first a flop CR won't protect your hand from a flush draw, even in the best-case scenario of it checking around to the button, who bets, allowing you to cut off all those in between. Someone with a four-flush will (correctly) call 2 cold. You would be protecting your hand from a gutshot, which is, of course, worth doing. But a C/R is unlikely to be of much value here...MP2 is the likely bettor, since he's the PF raiser. You could force the BB to call 2 cold, but it would just be one bet back to MP3 and the Button. In this spot, I'd lead/3bet the flop. If you lead, hopefully MP2 has something like AK and will pop it. It will be very difficult (and incorrect) for the MP2 and the button to call those 2 bets cold with a gutshot, especially since it doesn't close the action, and you're likely to 3bet.

As played, there's no way you can call two cold on the river.

[ontiltsoon]

Thank you all for your comments.

Yeah, once I posted the hand and looked at it, the C/R plan makes no sense... As paying two BB when I should know I'm beat.

Hope to keep learning! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[TheHip41]

I like the flop c/r. You have good relative position, and the PFR will almost always bet there.

On the turn, I like the bet, and MP just calls, that's good.

River is a brick. You bet, fish raises. Now, you are probably an underdog to the fish right now, but I would easily cryng call this.

Now, MP 3bets. The 2 didn't help him. Of his hands, you only beat AK, and AJ. It sure looks like he has AA, or AQ, or checked QQ on the flop, and turn a set. Or KJ and turned the nuts. But when this guy three bets, you are hoping he has AK, and you hope the fish has two pair with the 2 and x.

There is just too muich to hope for, this is a fold.

This is what WD was talking about. Figuring out when you are smoked, and folding. The only way you are winning is if both guys are retarded. Let me guess, you beat A2 and AK?

[TheHip41]

The flop check raise isn't about "protection", it's about "value"

You have the best hand, so make all those donkeys with 66, or JT pay 2 bets drawing dead.