QJs oop and Implied Odds

[Ryan Z]

Howdy. I'm a converting Limit player, so forgive my noobish-ness. I'd like some feedback if my line here is a leak or if it was correct strategy. UTG berated me afterward for my play, but seemed like a table captain.

CO had pushed all-in preflop previously with no raises in front; I figured with several deeper stacks at the table I could play my oop hand based on implied odds:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($17.20)
UTG ($9.55)
MP ($3.50)
CO ($8.90)
Button ($9.40)
Hero ($15.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, J.
[color=#CC3333]UTG raises to $0.5</font>, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.45, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($2.10) A, 7, 3 [color=#0000FF](4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, [color=#CC3333]CO bets $0.5</font>, Button calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, UTG folds.

Turn: ($3.60) 5 [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]CO bets $0.7</font>, Button calls $0.70, Hero calls $0.70.

River: ($5.70) 6 [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]CO bets $1</font>, Button calls $1, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $4</font>, [color=#CC3333]CO raises to $7.2</font>, Button folds, Hero calls $3.20.

Final Pot: $21.10

My play here was for a backdoor straight and flush draw, obviously. I figured if I hit a good card on the turn, (K, 10, spade, any combination of the 2) I'd have a very disguised hand and could busto one of the bigger stacks. Is this ok line of thought?

[Dunkman]

I'd fold PF (OOP, easily dominated hand), flop is a fold too (1.5 outs for the bdf, straight is maybe half an out at best since clubs are bad, else you need running QQ or JJ (QJ may not be good) that aren't clubs. I can't find more than 2 outs on this flop, which means you need to win another $9 from your opponents when you hit, and that doesn't even include the times that the turn costs you more $ when the river blanks.) I understand what you're saying on the flop, but it just isn't true in this spot. Not only do you have to stack someone when you hit to make it profitable, but you could make a very expensive straight when one of them is a club, or expensive 2 pair, etc. Turn is ok since you got this far. River is fine.

[Hince]

What is your plan with a Q high flop? This hand is difficult to play if you flop only have hit the flop. I usually fold preflop, but calling isn't that terrible.

I don't know that you have good enough implied odds to call the flop bet. You are also going to have to call a turn bet most of the time in the event that you turn a draw, and you may be priced out at that point.

That said, I sometimes make a play like this if I am playing against a known TAG that may tilt if I hit a BD draw. In this case, I don't really see the point in playing this hand.

[terp]

backdoor draws (even two) are not very valuable in NL most times. it costs more to get there, as bets escalate street to street.

also push the [censored] river man. wtf....

[Ryan Z]

Thanks everyone. Still learning.

[corndog]

Ryan-

I'm a little late on this. I think if you are going to call this flop for implied odds you have to get as much money in as possible when you hit. The chance of one of your backdoors hitting is really slim and in NL I would suggest always folding here, but if you do decide to play it on implied odds you have no option but to get all-in on the river when the opponent has shown willingness to play.

As far as I can tell from the action you have right near 0% chance of having a worse hand at the river. The only thing you should be remotely afraid of is K7 or K3 of spades, but those shouldn't be around based on the preflop action. Any other Kxs spades (of which I could only see K9 or KT possibly not folding preflop) should be gone on the flop. The whole fun of NL for me is the ability to squeeze every possible cent out when I have the best hand, and in this case that means throwing my entire stack, watch, car keys, etc. into the pot on the river.