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#21
09-11-2006, 12:25 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
[ QUOTE ]
The reason has everything to do with social conditions. White kids get swimming lessons while their parents are doing laps at the country club. [/ QUOTE ] That is how I learned. While my parents were eating caviar at the country club, I received private swimming lessons. In fact, every white kid in the country learned the same way, I am sure. Our family's butler was a very good swimmer, so he was helpful as well. 
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#22
09-11-2006, 03:59 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
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But he *knew how to swim*. His muscle/fat ratio didn't magically make him too dumb to figure it out. [/ QUOTE ] I never said it prevents one from knowing how to swim. I just implied that, due to differences in body composition, the median black swimmer is going to be less accomplished than the median white swimmer. Can blacks swim? Yes. Can they swim well enough to be lifeguards? Obviously. One thing that is overlooked here is the odd nature of racial categorizing: i.e. many people considered "black" probably only have a minority of African blood (remember the trouble Tiger Woods got into within the black community when he took exception to being called a "black golfer?") Anyone whose ever watched the NBA has to admit there are differences in physical capabilities with respect to race; that in no way diminishes or exalts any race. If nothing else, take this away with you: you can have racial equality without pretending everyone is identical.
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#23
09-11-2006, 04:01 PM
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Re: A PM
The problem I had with your OP (which I should have made clear), is that you weren't talking about ethnicity (one's geographic ancestry). You were talking about race.
Race is not a scientific category. It is a social one. Saying, "black people are inherently worse at swimming-here's some evidense" is in fact racist because it ascribes that trait to all dark people, without the relevant ethnic background story. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but IMO OP did have a racist aspect to it, and the only reason that somebody would bring something up like this is to bait. I just felt like I had to call you out. Love science all you want, but make sure you don't inject social constructs like race into science.
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#24
09-11-2006, 04:15 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
[ QUOTE ]
The ability to learn to swim has little to do with natural buoyancy and everything to do with being trained to do it. [/ QUOTE ] I think you might wish to reconsider. Negative buoyancy is a really stiff impediment to swimming and the desire to take a second lesson. If you sink like a stone you're going to hate it. I knew well a black student at college that needed to pass the swimming course (as did everyone) and he was a rock. I'm unsure how he did but it was clearly near to impossible for him to survive with bound legs and arms for 3/4 of an hour. I had no problem as I'm a cork.
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#25
09-11-2006, 04:21 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
[ QUOTE ]
Wait - so even hypothesizing that different ethnicities might have different traits is racism? [/ QUOTE ] That is the game as currently configured. THis is why there is absolutely zero chance of addressing any of the glaring and culturally destructive difference that exist between American whites and blacks (crime, educational success, illegitimacy, etc). How can you fix a problem if the slightest hint of it represents political death?
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#26
09-11-2006, 04:25 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
[ QUOTE ]
The reason has everything to do with social conditions. [/ QUOTE ] It'd be a real surprise if you have anything except your opinion to back that up. Wishing doesn't make it so. Multi-Culti college indoctrination is a poor substitute for critical thinking. I'm certain one or both of the above apply.
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#27
09-11-2006, 04:37 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The reason has everything to do with social conditions. White kids get swimming lessons while their parents are doing laps at the country club. [/ QUOTE ] That is how I learned. While my parents were eating caviar at the country club, I received private swimming lessons. In fact, every white kid in the country learned the same way, I am sure. Our family's butler was a very good swimmer, so he was helpful as well. [/ QUOTE ] I swam in pools filled with caviar -- it made it easier to float but harder to swim particularly fast.
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#28
09-11-2006, 06:23 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
It'd be a real surprise if you have anything except your opinion to back that up.
Joining everyone else in this thread. Including you. Wishing doesn't make it so. Multi-Culti college indoctrination is a poor substitute for critical thinking. I'm certain one or both of the above apply. You're not providing critical thinking, you're just name calling. Questions that haven't been answered that would help resolve this crapfest: How do we define swimming competency? What % of whites are swimming-competent? What % of blacks are swimming-competent? Within the white population, what are the biggest predictors of swimming competence? Within the black population, what are the biggest predictors of swimming competence? Do these predictors differ between blacks and whites? If these factors include environmental variables (availability of public pools, parent/guardians who know how to swim, disposable income, vacation time, schools with swim teams or pools), to what extent are these predictors available to blacks and whites? If there appear to be genetic factors, let's do some twin tests for basic swimming competence.
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#29
09-11-2006, 06:43 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
[ QUOTE ]
It'd be a real surprise if you have anything except your opinion to back that up. Joining everyone else in this thread. Including you. Wishing doesn't make it so. Multi-Culti college indoctrination is a poor substitute for critical thinking. I'm certain one or both of the above apply. You're not providing critical thinking, you're just name calling. Questions that haven't been answered that would help resolve this crapfest: How do we define swimming competency? What % of whites are swimming-competent? What % of blacks are swimming-competent? Within the white population, what are the biggest predictors of swimming competence? Within the black population, what are the biggest predictors of swimming competence? Do these predictors differ between blacks and whites? If these factors include environmental variables (availability of public pools, parent/guardians who know how to swim, disposable income, vacation time, schools with swim teams or pools), to what extent are these predictors available to blacks and whites? If there appear to be genetic factors, let's do some twin tests for basic swimming competence. [/ QUOTE ] Nice post. You are exactly right to point out that the studies people are mostly referencing are about actual percentages of whites/blacks who can swim, which really doesn't prove anything.
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#30
09-11-2006, 06:50 PM
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Re: Grey, racism, and my sister
[ QUOTE ]
I swam in pools filled with caviar -- it made it easier to float but harder to swim particularly fast. [/ QUOTE ] FYI: Somebody already tried this: Swimming in slime: a group of researchers discover swimming in syrup is as easy as in water http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...44/ai_n8968523 http://www.nature.com/news/2004/0409.../040920-2.html Apparently it doesn't hurt your speed at all.
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