Joe Navarro book, Nov 7th

[*TT*]

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Let It Ride? Dew Mason is the same author who wrote a very good poker book (with Rolf Slotboom). That's surprising.

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We all have made regrettable errors in our life, I guess writing a book on how to be a -EV game that cannot be beat should be included on that list. On the bright side Dew Mason earns an Ed Miller writing ability award for Hold'em on the Come; although I wasn't 100% thrilled with the content (only because it didn't cover new ground for me) its sold (baring a few typos) and I'd happily recommend it to anyone who is having challenges grasping the concepts within Small Stakes Hold'em or doesn't have access to a great forum for a support system like 2+2. Its a good book!

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[waynerooney]

As the original starter of this post, I would like to be the terminator of the post. Nothing in this thread has changed my excitement for reading this book. Too much testosterone and too much committment to winning an argument. The writer has obviously become over-emotional about a subject he is passionate about. And the 2+2 community had obviously over-stated their importance in the poker world. Guys its simple - Navarro's credentials are unparalleled and I'm excited to read this book. Buy it if you want to, dont buy it if you dont want to.

[gila]

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As the original starter of this post, I would like to be the terminator of the post. Nothing in this thread has changed my excitement for reading this book. Too much testosterone and too much committment to winning an argument. The writer has obviously become over-emotional about a subject he is passionate about. And the 2+2 community had obviously over-stated their importance in the poker world. Guys its simple - Navarro's credentials are unparalleled and I'm excited to read this book. Buy it if you want to, dont buy it if you dont want to.

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Does this look fishy to anyone else?

[benfranklin]

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As the original starter of this post, I would like to be the terminator of the post. Nothing in this thread has changed my excitement for reading this book. Too much testosterone and too much committment to winning an argument. The writer has obviously become over-emotional about a subject he is passionate about. And the 2+2 community had obviously over-stated their importance in the poker world. Guys its simple - Navarro's credentials are unparalleled and I'm excited to read this book. Buy it if you want to, dont buy it if you dont want to.

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Does this look fishy to anyone else?

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What's fishy? The guy registered a couple of days ago and has 3 posts:

1. This one, pushing the Navarro book.

2. The one that started this thread, pushing the Navarro book and seminar.

3. One in the Theory forum, pushing the Navarro seminar.

Just a coincidence. You people are so suspicious. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[ECDub]

In fairness, I think I mentioned this book in this forum a few weeks ago, so it's not like the book has never been mentioned here before. I have been looking forward to it for some time, but I agree, it does seem fishy. If anyone is interested in reading some of Navarro's work in tells, I think someone posted links to some of his articles back in a thread regarding Annie Duke's dvd when it first came out. I downloaded the articles and I recently reread them. There is one titled "Detecting Deception" By Navarro and Schafer. It is a really cool article. I don't know how easy it is to find on the web, but you might be able to do a search for the link in the Annie Duke thread using the search feature.

[kudzudemon]

Mr. Malmuth-
Most of the 2+2 titles I have read, I have returned to again and again. They have enhanced my play, as well as my enjoyment and understanding of the game. They have made me think, and helped me develop. Their worth almost always exceeds the "king's ransom" charged for them. That being said, let's be honest and not delude ourselves:

Dude, your cover artwork SUCKS.

Your left-brained sense of aesthetics is clouding your otherwise good judgement. That's where you pocket-protector types tend to lose credibility. You probably would have dismissed Picasso as "too squiggly", and championed Norman Rockwell's "symbolism". Consider Bob Dylan too whiney, but think Michael Bolton is a first rate artist because he hits all the "correct" notes.

Then again, you may have sterling artistic sensibilites, just a fetish for the "cheesy utilitarian" look.

Yeah, I know, cover art is not really "art", it's marketing. In that regard, the cover art is soooo unappealing that maybe it invokes that "it looks so crappy it must be good" ethos. So, using that criteria, we can call it successful. But "High Quality"?

Uh....no...

Don't get prickly, Hoss...just layin' down the gospel...

We now return you to your previous debate...

[MicroBob]

Wow. This thread is AWESOME.
I just read it all up to this point.

Mr Karlins - You have said multiple times that if you read your earlier posts one can see how well-behaved you were from the start and that you didn't change direction until provoked. Something like that anyway.
This, in fact, wasn't the case at all.

From your very first post you have been confrontational. And many people took exception to your inference that the other players' opinions were somehow more relevant than TT's because of their bracelets.


You also stated that you had been taken out of context on several occasions in this thread.
I didn't see this happen one time.


I don't just blindly suck-up to Mason. My criticisms of some of his and David's posts in a previous discussion with an author they lack respect for are evidence of that.

But, in this case, I have no problem with Mason's observations/criticisms at all.

Perhaps mentioning the writers-fees thing from 2+2 vs. Cardoza was pushing it a little. But it was in response to some of your comments that seemed to imply that all the best authors are at Cardoza.

But Mason takes great pride in the fact that he treats authors well. And that you don't have to be a TV-poker celebrity in order for your book to receive consideration with him based solely on its content.
Mason deserves to thump his chest a bit on this aspect.
Just as Cardoza is allowed to thump their chest if they promote the book as much as he says they do.


So, at the end of that analysis, I don't even think THAT part was over-the-line.


But many of your comments have just been ridiculous and you keep making things worse and worse for yourself in the eyes of ANYONE reading this thread..including those who have issues with Mason who can clearly see that you are behaving less than professionally and have been from the start.

[MicroBob]

More thoughts:

I have been unimpressed with the 2+2 cover-designs time-and-time again.
The cover for NLHETP is a better effort though imo.

Most of us who think the 2+2 covers aren't very good really don't give that much of a damn since we only care what's INSIDE the books. But we also have no hidden agenda here either.
So many 2+2'ers wouldn't have so many negative comments about the 2+2 covers if they weren't so widely considered to be pretty lousy.

If Mason is really focused on the quality of the cover art-work, and I believe that he is, he would be wise to go in a different direction for the upcoming projects and consider the possibility that he's wrong about this one and that the book-covers could use much improvement.


Mason mentioned something about other poker-covers not being as good.

I feel that the cover design for Weighing the Odds blows away every other cover. I really think it's that good.
A year ago I think I did a thread where I rated the poker book-covers just for fun...from my extremely amateurish point-of-view. I rated Weighing the Odds a 9 I believe and most 2+2 covers a 3 or 4.


I don't have my copy of Play Poker Like the Pros but, as I recall, the cover was fairly sharp looking and professional.
Mason is correct though that the paper quality and graphics in that book were absolutely horrid though.

[MicroBob]

Finally - Mr. Karlins' horrid behaviour (most recently including a ridiculous heads-up challenge to Mason, AWESOME for how stupid and inappropriate it is) actually will not influence my decision on whether to read this book nor my opinion on whether it is any good or not.

It sounds interesting, and I intend on giving it a look-see because my live-game and tell-reading ability could definitely use improvement. And it's a very interesting topic.

But while I will definitely READ the book, there is absolutely no way that I can, in good concience, spend one dime on a copy.

Before Mr Karlins' performance in this thread there would have been a reasonable chance that I would have bought a copy of this book.
TT's review had me interested and indicated that it could be interesting.
I might have awaited a couple more reviews that would have indicated that it is, at least, somewhat decent, but I'm almost positive they would have come.


But now that I am not buying the book and only reading it in the bookstore I will also feel inclined to encourage others to the same.



Mr. Karlins,
Mason actually tried to steer you in the right direction and get you to promote your book positively on these forums and in a professional manner.
You just decided to go the opposite direction which has been astonishing to observe.

[benfranklin]

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Before Mr Karlins' performance in this thread there would have been a reasonable chance that I would have bought a copy of this book.





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Karlins is a moron. That has nothing to do with the value of a book he co-authored, especially given that his contribution appears to be style rather than content.


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But now that I am not buying the book and only reading it in the bookstore I will also feel inclined to encourage others to the same.

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Reading a book in a bookstore is theft of intellectual property. Theft is theft, whether you are stealing from a genius or a moron. Rationalize it however you want, you are still stealing. It is no different than downloading bootleg music or movies or software on the internet. It is no different than stealing cash from an obnoxious drunk at a casino. It's still his money.