My comments on WSEX's latest update and the missing names in the HH's

[StellarWind]

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The entire HUD debate boils down to one thing. Emotional versus logical decision makers. Logical players want a HUD because having as much information/stats as possible is +EV. Emotional players dont like the stats and prefer to make their decision based on their reads and watching previous hands. Either you like HUD's or you dont. Because of this, it's impossible to convince either side the other side is correct.

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Dismissing people who disagree with you as "emotional" is not the hallmark of logical argument.

Reality is that the amount of money available to be won playing poker is limited, especially at a smaller site like WPEX. There is only so much dead money and so many fish available to catch. The good players are competing against each other to get a share of that money.

Let me repeat that. Poker is primarily a struggle between good players to capture the available supply of fish money. The struggle between good players and fish is very secondary because the fish always lose. Most fish play until they lose as much as they are willing to lose. If they lose it more slowly they may actually be willing to lose more because the game is much more entertaining.

This dispute between so-called logical and emotional players is actually a conflict between two types of rational players. Almost all decent players benefit from stats but some benefit a lot more than others. These stat-loving players are either especially talented at using stats or else they need stats because they aren't very good at anything else.

The players you call "emotional" are actually being extremely logical in many cases. Those players who play very well without stats or who don't benefit enough from stats will win a far bigger share of fish money at a site where HUDs and datamining don't exist.

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What I dont understand is why cant we all get along? Why do the emotional players want HUD's eliminated? Do they really feel disadvantaged? I think we should be free to play whatever style we like albeit with a HUD or not.

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Because HUD-haters are just as selfish as you apparently are. They want a game where their skills are preeminent and HUD-lovers are at a disadvantage. The two things that destroy online game quality are datamining/stats/HUDs and rakeback/incentives. Those sites where both are plentiful are very poor places to play poker unless you have the precise skill set required to exploit them: robotic poker played across a very large number of tables with a small win rate per table.

I'm not saying that other good players cannot beat these sites. I'm just saying they would be foolish to try. Much better opportunities exist elsewhere.

WPEX naturally does not care about the internal dispute between good players. They want what is best for themselves and they have done a good job identifying that. They don't benefit from filling seats. They benefit from maximizing the number of different customers playing at their site. Much better to have two pros playing two tables each than one pro playing eight tables because the two players are twice as likely to engage in other gambling. They also benefit when the fish can enjoy themselves a little longer before their money winds up inside a shark. Anyway I don't need to make this argument because WPEX has already made it and they know they are right.

[StellarWind]

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I still think WPEX could do a lot to win over players like me, such as improving the note taking system from a bare bones approach to something like what prima has, with the ability to classify players with different colors (green, yellow, orange, red).

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Prima? Is this something new? Perhaps you are thinking of Ultimate Bet?

[Guthrie]

Now put the big cards at my seat instead of the bottom of the table and we're jake.

[chezlaw]

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I still think WPEX could do a lot to win over players like me, such as improving the note taking system from a bare bones approach to something like what prima has, with the ability to classify players with different colors (green, yellow, orange, red).

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Prima? Is this something new? Perhaps you are thinking of Ultimate Bet?

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prima and pokerroom both have this.

or at least some of the skins do.

chez

[MNpoker]

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Since the initial release of my software, I have avoided these kind of discussions.

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You have said this at least 10 times in the last week, yet in reality you have been the most involved in this discussion. You obviously DO NOT avoid these discussions, saying you do does not make it true.

HUD's CURRENTLY WORK ON WSEX. I used GT+ yesterday while playing.

Poker Ace claiming they don't or that those who are anti-names in HH's = anti-Hud is simply a lie.

To the person who wants to be able to load HH's in PT, you can do that now.

[MNpoker]

Kudos!! And thanks for the Rake Free site.

[FUJItheFISH]

wsex gm

i am perfectly fine with not having the player names import. just dont get arrested by flying onto US soil and getting your site shutdown.

thx
fuji

[MicroBob]

WSEX GM has previously stated that they will correct the 'seat 1', 'seat 2', thing in their HH's so that they are even less compatible with something like GT+.


As it stands now though I think it's a half-reasonable compromise. You get the stats on the opponent on the hands you have played AT THAT TABLE ONLY and I would very much like it if WPEX allowed us to keep at least that much.

It doesn't 'push the envelope' nearly as much as data-mining capabilities or even just regular PA usage where you are able to bring up stats on your thousands of hands with somebody.
Although if you played thousands of hands with someone I would hope you would already have an idea of how he plays.


But having the stats on the screen of the 40 or so hands I have played against someone in the last hour should be more acceptable than the other super-semi-bot datamining type stuff that WSEX GM fears.
But I've already been on record as saying that I agree with those who say the fears are highly exaggerated anyway and that the HUD does NOT automatically make you a winning player.


I would also like to echo what others have said about the classyness of WSEX GM for coming here and addressing his site's issues with us and keeping us up to date.
Extremely classy and very much appreciated.

I placed a couple of football bets today on WSEX.
Although that might not be a good thing for them because I'm a FOOTBALL GENIUS.
But seriously, how could anyone NOT know that GB was going to get destroyed? Man are they embarassing.

[lotus guardian]

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Dismissing people who disagree with you as "emotional" is not the hallmark of logical argument.


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VNH

And excelent overall analysis of the situation IMO.

[elffaw]

Stellarwind for prez!