I flopped the second nuts; WTF is going on here?

SABR42 · #1 09-10-2006, 03:11 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($49)
Hero ($54.85)
UTG ($53.40)
MP1 ($83)
MP2 ($33.45)
CO ($17.65)
Button ($50.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($2) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.25, MP1 calls $1.25, Button calls $1.25, SB folds.

Turn: ($5.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $3.75, MP1 folds, Button raises to $8.5, Hero calls $4.75.

Re-raise here? Push?

To be honest I was a little confused here. Villain seems TAGish. The call flop, mini-raise turn could certainly be the nuts. A smaller flush usually jams the flop, a set also usually jams the flop. Villain might just have the lone A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and raising for a cheap river. All of this assuming villain's decent. If he isn't he could have a lot of hands. I think I called out of confusion.

River: ($22.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.5, Hero raises to $12, Button raises to $40.65, Hero calls $28.65.

Well, I still have the second nuts, but I'm actually confused about where I stand. I check (intending to check-call or check-raise).

Here is the really confusing part. Villain donk bets 5% of the pot! I'm like ZOMG WTF!!! Does the nuts bet like this? I'm almost forced to raise this, and I do. But then villain pushes. ZOMG WTF!!! Did you really bet 5% of the pot with the nuts on the river?!

Final Pot: $104.05

delta k · #2 09-10-2006, 03:13 PM

bet pot on flop and when you're reraised on the turn push it in. you're seeing monsters.

ZingyDNA · #3 09-10-2006, 03:16 PM

If I had the nuts, I'd raise you more on the turn and push the river if called. But lotta ppl @ NL50 doesn't play that way so I might be a nit and just call his donk bet cuz any raise commits you.

Dot_the_Bot · #4 09-10-2006, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($49)
Hero ($54.85)
UTG ($53.40)
MP1 ($83)
MP2 ($33.45)
CO ($17.65)
Button ($50.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($2) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.25, MP1 calls $1.25, Button calls $1.25, SB folds.

Turn: ($5.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $3.75, MP1 folds, Button raises to $8.5, Hero calls $4.75.

Re-raise here? Push?

To be honest I was a little confused here. Villain seems TAGish. The call flop, mini-raise turn could certainly be the nuts. A smaller flush usually jams the flop, a set also usually jams the flop. Villain might just have the lone A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and raising for a cheap river. All of this assuming villain's decent. If he isn't he could have a lot of hands. I think I called out of confusion.

River: ($22.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.5, Hero raises to $12, Button raises to $40.65, Hero calls $28.65.

Well, I still have the second nuts, but I'm actually confused about where I stand. I check (intending to check-call or check-raise).

Here is the really confusing part. Villain donk bets 5% of the pot! I'm like ZOMG WTF!!! Does the nuts bet like this? I'm almost forced to raise this, and I do. But then villain pushes. ZOMG WTF!!! Did you really bet 5% of the pot with the nuts on the river?!

Final Pot: $104.05

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO-

I push the turn here.

Im not worried about the nut flush-
Im worried that either:
a. Im in with a smaller flush and a heart falls on the river and kills my action; or
b. Im in with a set, who is more likely to call on the turn with a live draw- then on the river when the board fails to pair.

- Then again, at this limit, noones likely folding anything. So get it in!

If Im dead- that's poker.

InternetJunky · #5 09-10-2006, 03:28 PM

This is one spot where I think the only line that makes sense for villian is also a flush.

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: ($2) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.25, MP1 calls $1.25, Button calls $1.25, SB folds.

[/ QUOTE ]
If villian has a set/2 pair here, he is making massive mistakes on this flop. Could be drawing to a flush with the A.

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: ($5.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $3.75, MP1 folds, Button raises to $8.5, Hero calls $4.75.

[/ QUOTE ]
I suppose villian's made flush might play this way...

[ QUOTE ]

River: ($22.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.5, Hero raises to $12, Button raises to $40.65, Hero calls $28.65.

[/ QUOTE ]
River bet gives it away I think. I think villian figured you for a flush draw and bet that tiny river bet to get a few more pennies out of his made flush.

Then again, I tend to assign the same thought processes to villian's as I would do in the same situation. This was probably JTo or something equally retarded.

Calling is a no-brainer here though.

redickulous · #6 09-10-2006, 03:28 PM

RESULTS ORIENTATED

terencetsao · #7 09-10-2006, 03:36 PM

re-raise it in on the turn, some one has [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A alone drawing.. then push it in on the river.

SABR42 · #8 09-10-2006, 03:39 PM

I am fairly sure that if Button made a real raise on the turn I would have shoved without thinking too much.

But so many players mini-raise their nuts at this level that you have to be concerned about it at least somewhat, IMO.

Dunkman · #9 09-10-2006, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]

River bet gives it away I think. I think villian figured you for a flush draw and bet that tiny river bet to get a few more pennies out of his made flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would he figure you for a flush draw if he has the A?

SABR42 · #10 09-10-2006, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]

IMO-

I push the turn here.

Im not worried about the nut flush-
Im worried that either:
a. Im in with a smaller flush and a heart falls on the river and kills my action; or
b. Im in with a set, who is more likely to call on the turn with a live draw- then on the river when the board fails to pair.

- Then again, at this limit, noones likely folding anything. So get it in!

If Im dead- that's poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your reasoning. I think what stopped me from pushing the turn was the mini-raise. Players mini-raise their nuts at this level like clockwork. I would have pushed to a big turn raise.

Out of curiosity, how would you play this hand if you had 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] instead?