5/10 AA FOLD NUT FULL HOUSE?????????

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

Jones,

Nice to be back to formal terms with you; let's keep it that way [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

OK, I believe I never really explained my thoughts on this hand, so now would be a good time to do so.

I 3bet, umm.... again, and so I could have nothing here on the flop and just saying forget it move on to the next hand. However, I want to keep the pot small in this hand. I feel like if I can keep the pot small, I will have the best hand, since obv quads is trying to inflate the pot here. Furthermore, for the pot to inflate, one of my opponents will have to do it themselves, since I am not going to be doing so, and therefore I will get a lot more information about their hands. The river, IMO, is a combination of two things. 1) The turn action, and 2) my opponents.

Let me explain 1. Ok, I will not be c/ring the pot on the turn because of the aforementioned goal of keeping the pot smaller (which also entices weaker hands to stay involved, and literally I cannot be beaten except by a king, so QQ/JJ etfc is drawing dead. So, I cehkc the turn and the 3rd guy puts in a small bet here, which is obv suspicious, but not to the point where I can just fold the seconds nuts. So, I call. Then, a solid player overcalls. This becomes much worse, because the third guy made a bet size that IMO he would with quads, and then I, the pfr, seemingly out of nowhere, calls as well, AND THEN on top of that another solid player overcalls??

This is very bad obv. I seriously am starting to doubt the strength of my hand. However, I agree that the upper part of my range here is AA/king, so yes I have underreppresented my hand. Therefore, I bet the river.

To the river. A good solid player, who KNOWS that AA or a king is not out of the realm of possibilities for me, PUSHES, when he KNOWS that the third guy made a suspicious looking bet. This means that he is not afraid of either me or the third guy (the third guy still had to act and he underbet the pot on the turn). All of this put together, IMO made it a fold. FWIW, obv I am not getting to the river like this with AA if I am Schmoo, but I would only call the river probably.

Thoughts?

[yvesaint]

i still dont understand why you didnt lead turn. i would have led turn.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

Because I didn't want to inflate the pot, and someone ahead of me on the flop other than 33 is still ahead of me. And for decpetive pruposes. Remember I am NOT trying to felt this hand in the blind.

EDIT: The reason I am not automatically felting this hand is b/c it's 3 players and the pfr action from Schmoo was really weird.

[philipsaurus]

[ QUOTE ]
There are lots of posts here I don't want to read but there's no reason why he can't have QQ at least as much as quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

yah, half of the replies here at tl;dr.

people do retarded things in spots like these. you see qq/jj enough to make the call ok, i think.

[aejones]

Greg, I feel like you've played the hand in a way that almost never will with a king. I mean, it's so awkward, you'd be losing value from smaller houses, and it just lookss too strong IMO for you to have a king here, assuming you want to play your hand with some sort of deception.

I really don't understand the river bet. I don't mind a c/c or something since the turn play is so suspicious, but I don't get the block-lead thing, especially if you're going to fold to a push. I really don't ever see you making this river bet with a king (do you? seriously?). And since I don't see that, I think it's correct for someone to make a bluff at you here with a decent frequency, knowing you're capable of folding a big hand (it probably looks the most like you have QQ/JJ here, which seem to be (easy?) river folds. It is quite possible that Schmoo had some sort of a read on the player that bet the turn, although I do agree that his river push should be stronger here because the third player has yet to act (but I mean now the third player can only call with a king, so the bluff isolates you in case the third player has like QQ or JJ or something, and Schmoo can't beat it).

Anyways, I think his bluffing frequency here is fairly high. Given the fact that you only have to be right 1 in 4 times for this to be profitable and you've played your hand so weird up to this point, I would make the call.

[slcseas]

The odd man out here just killed you IMO. I absolutely can't stand being in a spot like this with a calling station who just sticks around after an EP raise and re-raise. I agree it smells like he is slow playing the case King.

I haven't decided whether villian is a genius or suicidal.
My opinion is that he decided you didn't have a King after you checked the flop and C/C'd the turn. Using your logic, anybody with quads is going to attempt to inflate the pot size at some point. After not betting/raising the flop or turn against an apparent calling station in player 3, it looks like he decided his hand was best. He must have had a pretty solid read on player 3 to make this push. The way he played just screams KQ to me. I think I probably make this laydown too, I just couldn't see both of my opponents sticking around and not seeing a King at showdown.

[cts]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone ever dissents from opinion, like my suggestion that- oh no- he's bluffing at probably the largest pot of the week because your betting weak, just isn't accepted by 2+2 here. I have time after time not insulted one individual, and constantly have been taking this from everyone here, including people who have just begun posting here, and are trying to look cool (givemenuts). Theres more than one way to play the game, and I'm dissapointed you can't respect that without taking it personally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said you were an idiot because you claim that UTG, a solid player, IS OVERCALLING WITH 72o (WHICH HE PLAYED IN A RERAISED POT) ON THE TURN TO BLUFF THE RIVER INTO A FULL HOUSE OFFERING 999:1 ODDS CHRIST.

Also it's totally unfair to attack a reputable, expert player such as GimmeNutz.

[Hoopster81]

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Also it's totally unfair to attack a reputable, expert player such as GimmeNutz.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[Imackswitches]

I'm done commenting on this thread, and for a forum dedicated to reading people, its curious no one could pick up on the exaggerated point of 72 bluffing here, instead looking foolish themselves berating the person who made a sarcastic comment they didn't pick up on. At the end of the day, your pot odds mean zilch in a pot this big, as this is either stack, or be stacked, and McShcoo made a great play, knowing this. Call me "retarded" all you want, makes no difference.

[cts]

Made a great play? Are you serious? Value betting the second nuts is a great play?