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#1
09-08-2006, 03:58 PM
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I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
This was like my 4th hand at the table; villain had raised PF 2 of the first 3. In the last hand, he raised from MP and was called only by the BB. He bet a K43 flop and then folded the turn (a 4) to BB's C/R, so it appears he can acknowledge when he's beaten.
Party Poker Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $2/$4 5 players Converter Pre-flop: (5 players) JerseyTom is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">JerseyTom 3-bets</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls. Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7.5SB, 2 players) UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">JerseyTom bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, JerseyTom calls. If he has an A, he will simply never fold the flop, not with the wheel draw. I'm only about 62/38 vs AK, AQ, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't 3-bet, right? If he has some non-ace crap like KT or a pair lower than my J's, I'd like him to think he's either ahead or can fold out my AK, AQ if he fires again on the turn. Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.75BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">JerseyTom raises</font>, ... Thanks, Tom 
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#2
09-08-2006, 04:04 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
I like. call a 3bet and call any river except a 4.
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#3
09-08-2006, 04:17 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
what is not to like...
This is my preferred line unless villain is willing to go bananas on flop and turn with worse hands than mine, then I 3-bet flop...
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#4
09-08-2006, 04:21 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropri
[ QUOTE ]
what is not to like... This is my preferred line unless villain is willing to go bananas on flop and turn with worse hands than mine, then I 3-bet flop... [/ QUOTE ]
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#5
09-08-2006, 05:20 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
Tell me if this thinking is right.
Villain raised pf but didn't cap the three-bet. His holding then are generally NOT AA,KK, or QQ but more likely overcards or 66-99 maybe TT. When he checkraises the flop. We can discount the overcards a bit but still put him on the PP below ours. So we think JJ is generally good here even though he donk bets. The only real hand we are scared of is 99. We think he donk bets with flush draws, underpairs, UI overcards, or insano hands like A9 T9s more than 50% so our raise is for Value right? LLL
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#6
09-08-2006, 06:39 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
[ QUOTE ]
Tell me if this thinking is right. Villain raised pf but didn't cap the three-bet. His holding then are generally NOT AA,KK, or QQ but more likely overcards or 66-99 maybe TT. When he checkraises the flop. We can discount the overcards a bit but still put him on the PP below ours. So we think JJ is generally good here even though he donk bets. The only real hand we are scared of is 99. We think he donk bets with flush draws, underpairs, UI overcards, or insano hands like A9 T9s more than 50% so our raise is for Value right? LLL [/ QUOTE ] for all those people that don't understand why I don't cap AA in this spot HU, this is why. LLL is going to give me 4 bets on the turn and river with 2 outs. If I cap PF, he probably just calls down. Givent that you raised the turn, if this guy three bets, it's over. If he threebets, unless you have a read taht he's retarded, fold to the three bet. calling down and calling a river bet is spewing.
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#7
09-08-2006, 07:21 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Tell me if this thinking is right. Villain raised pf but didn't cap the three-bet. His holding then are generally NOT AA,KK, or QQ but more likely overcards or 66-99 maybe TT. When he checkraises the flop. We can discount the overcards a bit but still put him on the PP below ours. So we think JJ is generally good here even though he donk bets. The only real hand we are scared of is 99. We think he donk bets with flush draws, underpairs, UI overcards, or insano hands like A9 T9s more than 50% so our raise is for Value right? LLL [/ QUOTE ] for all those people that don't understand why I don't cap AA in this spot HU, this is why. LLL is going to give me 4 bets on the turn and river with 2 outs. If I cap PF, he probably just calls down. Givent that you raised the turn, if this guy three bets, it's over. If he threebets, unless you have a read taht he's retarded, fold to the three bet. calling down and calling a river bet is spewing. [/ QUOTE ] So is raising the turn the right thing? If so, why? That is the question. LLL
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#8
09-08-2006, 07:26 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Tell me if this thinking is right. Villain raised pf but didn't cap the three-bet. His holding then are generally NOT AA,KK, or QQ but more likely overcards or 66-99 maybe TT. When he checkraises the flop. We can discount the overcards a bit but still put him on the PP below ours. So we think JJ is generally good here even though he donk bets. The only real hand we are scared of is 99. We think he donk bets with flush draws, underpairs, UI overcards, or insano hands like A9 T9s more than 50% so our raise is for Value right? LLL [/ QUOTE ] for all those people that don't understand why I don't cap AA in this spot HU, this is why. LLL is going to give me 4 bets on the turn and river with 2 outs. If I cap PF, he probably just calls down. Givent that you raised the turn, if this guy three bets, it's over. If he threebets, unless you have a read taht he's retarded, fold to the three bet. calling down and calling a river bet is spewing. [/ QUOTE ] So is raising the turn the right thing? If so, why? That is the question. LLL [/ QUOTE ] When I read the main thread, I thought the player was described as a good tag. If I bet/3bet you and youhave JJ on this board, given my actions PF, and the flop, you can fold. If you don't have a read, then I wouldn't fold. I would raise the turn, just in case he has the AQ kinda hand.
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#9
09-08-2006, 07:40 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
I mix it up here 3-betting the flop or raising the turn.
3-betting flop: I feel this line looks "weaker" to him as it is used by some with mere overcards. If I feel he has a weak pair this is a better line to convince him to stick around to showdown. raising turn: A scare card may come and keep you from raising, alternatively a scare card may come and he may check, losing a small bet when you are ahead. Also this line looks stronger and may fold many weaker hands. He will also 3-bet his monsters. Overall not much difference. But I do like raising the turn as preference so he knows in the future that check-raising my flop bets will mean he is going to get popped on the turn alot.
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#10
09-08-2006, 11:53 PM
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Re: I think I use this line too much, pls remind me when it\'s appropriate
I say pound him on the flop while you're still probably ahead.
If he calls with any two overcards you get the best of it. If he folds an he's making a mistake. You win either way. Your 62/38 against AK, 60/40 vs AKsuited with a BDFD, and 75/25 vs any the two other overcards KQ.
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