Who on here is a HU specialist??

[BeerMoney]

Blumpkin? Lstream? MRBAA? Carlos? Who else has experience? Bartholow?

Anyway, HU is a real challenge, Frappeboy made the staement "The key to HU is to appear looser than you are." Sometimes, I think its the opposite, I suppose the opponent is what is matters in that case.

I've seen a guy play, who absolutely dominates, and honestly, he's the ony person that i've seen play limit poker in a way in which "the cards don't really matter"..That souds a little cheesy, but hey, I'm drunk..



As far as the bring in goes, are you guys reraising with any pair? what other tricks are up your sleeves?

Also, check out my new title, i'm no longer exiled.

[MrBlueNose]

I used to play heads up sit & gos almost exclusively. Only Stud High though, the Stud/8 S&Gs, especially on Stars, would take almost 2 hours of my life [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I also do play a lot of heads up cash games.

The key thing in heads up is to mix it up, don't become predictable particularly against an opponent who you're going to be playing with over a long stretch. I mix it up a lot, but I like to start a game by playing fairly passive, letting villain think he has "control", then changing things around in certain spots to extract maximum value.

I'd recommend playing some of the heads up Stud games(FUll Tilt & Stars have em) in tournament format so you can get good practise.

[Raul Wong]

I have played a ton of HU stud8(mostly 2-4, .25ante on OnGame) and feel as though I have a fairly strong understanding of the HU game as I have also done a ton of work on twodimes in the past.

I havent seen him post here is forever but Wu36 also mentioned awhile ago that he plays some HU stud8

The game in general is very boring though...I have played 200 hands an hour against some opponents who never make it past 3rd without a good hand.

[iamastud]

One important thing about head is what the strucre of the game is. if you are in a $10/20 game for example where it is a $1 ante and $3 bring in, and you are up against a very aggresive player that likes to raise it each time, then with such a structure and player i suggest that you would beat this player by letting him take all these small ante pots and you will make it up and above by taking the big pots when he continues to bluff at it.

But if you are playing in a looser structure such a strategy would not work and you will have to defend your bring ins much more frequently to equalize the game. a game of $30/60 with $5 ante and $10 bring in would be such a looser structure.

But the point that i am trying to make is that many people feel that the way to win at heads up play is to be totally aggresive and i am suggesting that with the right structure against an agressive opponent, you will get to him by letting him be the aggressive one and win all the $1 chips as you win all the red chips. you will let him fall under his own weight.

[mscags]

I agree HU Stud8 can be fun, but not against someone who doesnt ever play a single hand and the whole game is you stealing antes, sure its profitable in the long run but is absolutely boring as hell

[frappeboy]

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One important thing about head is what the strucre of the game is. if you are in a $10/20 game for example where it is a $1 ante and $3 bring in, and you are up against a very aggresive player that likes to raise it each time, then with such a structure and player i suggest that you would beat this player by letting him take all these small ante pots and you will make it up and above by taking the big pots when he continues to bluff at it.

But if you are playing in a looser structure such a strategy would not work and you will have to defend your bring ins much more frequently to equalize the game. a game of $30/60 with $5 ante and $10 bring in would be such a looser structure.

But the point that i am trying to make is that many people feel that the way to win at heads up play is to be totally aggresive and i am suggesting that with the right structure against an agressive opponent, you will get to him by letting him be the aggressive one and win all the $1 chips as you win all the red chips. you will let him fall under his own weight.

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I disagree. Lets say we are playing a tight ante structure and I'm raising 3rd every hand, while you are waiting around for good hands. Basically I'll pick up 80% of the pots on 3rd, but who is to say I have to continue bluffing the whole way? I can just check/fold 4th when I have absoltuely nothing, bet 4th when I have some kind of hand, and only be betting 5th when I have a good hand. So basically the problem with your strategy of just "waiting for a good hand", is that I'll beat you on 3rd, you may beat me a little bit on 4th, but I'll beat you 5th street and on because I'm only gonna continue with strong hands whereas you may continue with weaker hands since I've been doing "all this bluffing" on 3rd.

This is why I told Beer that the best strategy is to appear loose (by all these early bluffs), but when the big bets start going in you need to have a big hand especially against a tight player.

The thing about this style is that it's not a "natural" style, but rather a developed style. Which means very few players that havent done a lot of thinking about the game will have a style like this. Usually either a player will be a LAG/Bluffer type or a Tight type, but not a LAG/bluffer on 3rd/4th and a Tight on 5th/beyond. When you do play against someone who is using this style, it is very tough to outplay them.. Does anyone have suggestions on "countering" this HU style of play?

Also, I'd like to note if you are using this style, its best to deviate depending on your opponent.. If your opponent is a total loose cannon bluffer you are better off just waiting for big hands and killing him on the later streets (sort of what iamstud said in his post). If your opponent is a total tightbag then the above strategy (raising every hand on 3rd) should work well, but be a lot more careful on 4th/5th that you would be with a normal player.

To see how difficult this strategy is to deal with, think about if you have (42)4 and I raise coming in with a queen and you know I'm using this strategy, what do you do? You know you aren't gonna get any money out of me on 4th unless I have something (likely overcards to your pair or a bigger pair), and on 5th you definitely won't get any money out of me unless i actually have it.. So what do you do on 3rd with a pair of 4s here? It's not that easy.

[lstream]

I think I have said this before, but jeez Frappe - you need to write a book. I was about to make a post about a "probing" style of play, but your explanation is so crisp I don't have much to add, but here goes.

I am not that experienced with heads up or shorthanded play, but I find myself seeking it out now, as it can be very enjoyable. Instead of the normal 20% or so of hands I am in, short handed and heads up leads to playing the majority of hands.

At heads up, I start playing pretty much all hands with at least an overcard. As someone else says though you have to mix up things enough to not be entirely predictable. I like to consider third and fourth streets to be the hands where I probe for information. Probing consists of raises in many cases and you can generate a lot of folds. Third and fourth will definitely appear as LAG to an opponent. The secret here is to be disciplined enough to dump a lot of hands early or to re-raise them to see if villain is making a move on you if you have much of anything. I am selective about draws without a backup like a pair of some sort. A decent pair will win a lot of hands.

You also need to be prepared to push small edges on fifth and beyond once you have a read of how much garbage chasing your opponent will do. I try to play enough hands where it is very difficult for the opponent to develop any sense at all when I catch a big hand. If you do enough probing on third and fourth, are capable of abandoning "experiments" that don't work out on fifth or even fourth sometimes, and are aggressive with small edges, then you have a good chance of getting serious action on the big hands, which is where the real money is made.

If you end up getting heads up with the right kind of opponent, and get him off balance and guessing, you can make a lot of money quick it seems.

[lstream]

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To see how difficult this strategy is to deal with, think about if you have (42)4 and I raise coming in with a queen and you know I'm using this strategy

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Further to this question, I am still developing my thinking, but I am on the lookout for hands where I can break his rhythym and/or confidence with a highly deceptive hand or two. So if your (42)4 hand is (43)4 instead with a two flush, then I will often take on the queen with an early raise. If he actually has it, I don't feel too bad about seeing fifth to see how the hand develops, assuming his board does not get scary. Once you finally connect and smack his queens up when he figured you for a crappy two pair, you can start to throw him off the strategy. I feel that the secret is to make him lose confidence that his style is working against you, and get him off his preferred game.

[lstream]

OK - another thought on how to deal with the Frappe strategy. I also think it is important to keep the last 10 to 20 hands in mind, when deciding how to play a particular hand. You should be thinking about the image you have been presenting over that span of hands. Does villain think I am LAG, tight, maniac? If you decide that there should be some kind of conclusion he can draw, then you should be looking for opportunities to do the exact opposite of what he should be expecting. This is keeping with my belief that heads up results will be determined more by psychology when compared against full table play.

[Phat Mack]

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When you do play against someone who is using this style, it is very tough to outplay them.. Does anyone have suggestions on "countering" this HU style of play?

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I think you have to play with him. If he's going to play all his 3rd and 4th streets, I think you have to play all of your 3rd and 4th streets. I've played this way--calling everything--amd I've tried raising randomly 20% of the time. I didn't see much difference between the two, but I think a higher random-raise rate might serve to get your opponent strung out on marginal hands. (To be candid, I probably fold ~10% againgst someone playing all his hands.

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To see how difficult this strategy is to deal with, think about if you have (42)4 and I raise coming in with a queen and you know I'm using this strategy, what do you do?

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I think (42)4 is a definite player against the (xx)Q of a loose-on-3rd-and-4th player. If you fold, you sell out your (KK)4's, plus, I wouldn't want to forgo the ITO of hitting this little piece of cheese. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]