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#1
09-06-2006, 06:19 AM
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Learning HORSE
I, like may other people became interested in No limit Hold'em after seeing it on TV (Late night poker, in the UK) and I hadn't really played any other forms of poker.
Then HORSE games popped up on stars and really sparked my interest. I read Sklanskys' essay "Choosing your game" which featured the line "I think it is inexcusable not to learn every game fairly well" and Mr. Negreanus' interview in which he said "Now the HORSE event, or the real world championship of poker as it should be known". So I now feel compelled to broaden my horizons and learn these new games. I'm looking for so advice on how to go about this, what order I might go about learning new games, and which texts are best to guide me on my way. My searches have brought up the following: Mr. Miller seems to have limit hold'em rapped up with the following list:- [ QUOTE ] Beginner level: Getting Started in Hold 'em by me Winning Low Limit Hold 'em, 3rd Edition only by Lee Jones Internet Texas Hold 'em by Matthew Hilger Intermediate Level: Small Stakes Hold 'em by me, David, and Mason Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players by David and Mason Weighing the Odds in Limit Hold 'em by King Yao How Good is Your Limit Hold 'em by Jacobs and Brier [/ QUOTE ] Omaha H/L Omaha Poker by Bob Ciafonne Omaha High-Low Play to Win With the Odds by Bill Boston, (for the charts) Super System 2 High-Low-Split Poker,Seven-card Stud and Omaha Eight-or-better for Advanced Players Razz I already have Sklansky on poker/Sklansky on Razz which I understand is the definitive work on Razz. There is also a section on Razz in play poker like the pro's, however, I previously owned this book (before I was enlightened by 2+2) and I couldn't drag myself though it far enough to realize there was a section on Razz, as the beginning hold'em sections were so bad. Is the Razz or other sections actually worth reading? Stud Super System - Chip Reese 7 Stud For Advanced Players - Sklansky, Malmuth and Zee Stud eight or better High-Low-Split Poker,Seven-card Stud and Omaha Eight-or-better for Advanced Players, again. While I'm sure the 2+2 publications are excellent the mention of "for Advanced players" in the title concerns me slightly. I am obviously a beginner and need to read beginners literature first. So which books do you start with for each game? Which books would you add/take away from this list. I realize learning 5 games is a bit ambitious, but I'm only looking to play small stacks tournaments where I believe having a basic knowledge of each game is enough to give you the edge on most opponents. 
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#2
09-06-2006, 08:52 AM
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Re: Learning HORSE
[ QUOTE ]
limit hold'em Beginner level: Getting Started in Hold 'em or the Byron Jacobs beginners book Intermediate Level: Small Stakes Hold 'em by me, David, and Mason Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players by David and Mason For fun of it How Good is Your Limit Hold 'em by Jacobs and Brier Real poker II bu Roy Cooke Omaha H/L Winning O8 by tenner and krieger (2/3rds of the book are an awfull waste of paper (Krieger), but Tenners stuff is ok) Super system II (Mark Grigorovich I remember to be the author, but not sure if his name is in the book though [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) High-Low-Split Poker,Seven-card Stud and Omaha Eight-or-better for Advanced Players Razz I already have Sklansky on poker/Sklansky on Razz which I understand is the definitive work on Razz. There is also a section Rumour has it, that play poker like the pro's razz section is decent. Stud Super System - Chip Reese 7 Stud For Advanced Players - Sklansky, Malmuth and Zee Stud eight or better Supersystem II, Todd Brunson High-Low-Split Poker,Seven-card Stud and Omaha Eight-or-better for Advanced Players, again. [/ QUOTE ] Do not be scared of the word advanced and so what if it is ambitious, most other players also suck at most of the games, so if you start out at small stakes you will most likely be fine [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Oh .. and don't forget the forums here on two plus two, Razz has fir example suddenly out of nowhere become a prominent figure at the stud forum ... go figure [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#3
09-06-2006, 03:36 PM
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Re: Learning HORSE
Limit Hold'em:
looks good O8: The charts in the Boston book looked to me to be completely useless (which of course is basically the entire book) unless I missunderstood how they were calculated. Personally I like Mike C's book quite a bit but the general belief on here is that it's only ok. Others on 2+2 suggest starting with the Lou Krieger book while I only think it's ok. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I also like the SS2 chapter. Razz: There is also a chapter on razz in SS1 but I have no clue how good it is. Stud: Looks good. I have seen several people suggest reading the stud book by Ashley Adams (I think) as a beginners book. Stud8: Todd Brunson's chapter in SS2 is also good.
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#4
09-06-2006, 03:45 PM
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Re: Learning HORSE
[ QUOTE ]
Stud: Looks good. I have seen several people suggest reading the stud book by Ashley Adams (I think) as a beginners book. [/ QUOTE ] Ashley Adams book has not received the best review at the stud forum ... but hey .. except for SS1 and 7CSFAP everything has been flamed there .. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#6
09-07-2006, 04:05 AM
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Re: Learning HORSE
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Stud: Looks good. I have seen several people suggest reading the stud book by Ashley Adams (I think) as a beginners book. [/ QUOTE ] Ashley Adams book has not received the best review at the stud forum ... but hey .. except for SS1 and 7CSFAP everything has been flamed there .. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Adams's book was very basic. (At least the first half. It was so basic, I didn't make it to the second half.) The first half is full of basic advise that you probably know if you've ever read any poker book--play tight; play within your bankroll, etc. I picked it up because it was less than a dollar at Amazon. It's not a bad book. It doesn't seem like the book is wrong, just not very advanced. Since you can pick it up used very cheaply, it's probably worth it if you've never played stud before, just so you know exactly which hands are worth playing. But I think if you have basic stud knowledge, the book probably isn't worth reading.
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#7
09-07-2006, 08:21 AM
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Re: Learning HORSE
Limit Holdem: Super System 2 is good for full ring from the ABC parts, having a good strategy, but the details are all missing. The correct details from basic parts (from 2 to 10 players) have been out there for a long time but have not been printed to any single or even close book yet, and much of it is in articles, texts and softwares.
Omaha high-low: Super System 2, not the first text that killed the game (limit). Hi-Lo and Omaha poker dies very easily as the edges are more marginal. Razz: HOSE (Super System [1]). A possibility to beat the tight (as well as loose) players is still there but the market is small and the game is not interesting. Stud: The elements of seven card stud [it goes with other name(s) too] by Konstantin Othmer. I have always had respect for it (though the games these days are tight) after Super System [1] that contains all the meat, nothing else new has come ever since, the Othmer book being the only exception, it looking into the elements deeply rather than coming with some top good common sense strategy bible. Seven card stud is about making extra bets - pieces of them. There in theory is still potentiality here as it's not too common knowledge, as long as the rake doesn't eat it too much - a problem with 7 Studs, Hi-Lo poker, Omaha. The other edges are very small (showdown poker) - just the opposite of holdem that's mainly about the edge (that also may keep the game alive as it needs experience too). 7 Stud has been mainly a dead game ever since 1998 at least. Seven card stud high-low: Super System 2, the text both gave some new life to the game and completely killed the game.
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#8
09-07-2006, 06:41 PM
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Re: Learning HORSE
[ QUOTE ]
The correct details from basic parts (from 2 to 10 players) have been out there for a long time but have not been printed to any single or even close book yet, and much of it is in articles, texts and softwares. [/ QUOTE ] Interesting. What articles, texts, and softwares do you mean?
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