so let me get this new WPEX thing straight

[sharp63]

[ QUOTE ]
"Boring" multi-tabling HUD-"bots" like me DO care and will not play without them. And you need my business first before you get the fish's business

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how arrogrant HUDonks are. Personally, I couldn't care less if they are at WPEX or not. The games will be more enjoyable without them, but they are so easy to target and manipulate that it may take me a few sessions to adjust to not having them around.

Overall, I've found the games at WPEX to be not all that bad. I expected my WR from other fishier sites to drop and they really haven't. They have a bit but the no rake certainly makes up for it.

I applaud WPEX for making it harder for HUDonks. Next up should be only giving the full rake of the hand to the person who actually won the hand. That's the way rake should ever be distributed since that's the person who is actually hurt by the rake.

[ipitythefool]

Every time we have a WSEX thread, I'm constantly amazed at how many people in the 2+2 community jump on the "drive out the multi-tablers and hudbots" campaign. This whole argument makes me realize how many there are out there who like to make posts when they should be working on their game. You people act like multi-tablers will come in and just cut up the games. Your logic is backwards.

If you want to play 1 or 2 tables, that's your choice, play as many or as little as you want. If I was going to limit myself to so few tables, I would want my opponents to be playing as many as possible. If you can't play better than someone who has their attention spread across 6-12 tables then you need to keep working on your game.

[ QUOTE ]


THE ONLY THING THIS ISNT GOOD FOR IS HUDDONKS WHO DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY POKER



[/ QUOTE ]

First, someone who can use a HUD effectively and the numbers behind it probably has a much better understanding of the game than someone that never takes time to go over numbers or look at stats and just plays. It's your choice to use it or not use it.

Second, you are retarded, if they "DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY POKER" and they are multi-tabling huddonks, that is fantastic for poker, bring them in. If they can't play, let them spray it out on as many tables as possible.

So, if you can't beat them, you very well could be at the wrong limit. Work on your game. If it scares you that they'll come in and drive out the fish. You're one of the fish. Work on your game.

[d10]

[ QUOTE ]
So, if you can't beat them, you very well could be at the wrong limit. Work on your game. If it scares you that they'll come in and drive out the fish. You're one of the fish. Work on your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you realize that an expert player will make more from a complete fish than he will from a typical "hud donk"? When I see one of my favorite fish at a table, I'd love it if I could play him HU or as short as possible. I lose money when players better than him come to the table. If WPX became saturated with "hud donks" my profits would shrink considerably. It's not because my game needs work.

[Dennisa]

Gregg I agrees with what you are saying. Can you imagine the amount of buzz that would generate if WSEX funded all the rake into Any aces full beaten jackpots and $50.00 random player giveaways. Fish would like these promotions.


And I am suprised by the WSEX model. They really should not be giving out rakeback dollars, but credits for bets in their sportsbook.

[sharp63]

[ QUOTE ]
First, someone who can use a HUD effectively and the numbers behind it probably has a much better understanding of the game than someone that never takes time to go over numbers or look at stats and just plays. It's your choice to use it or not use it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't use a HUD at WPEX simply because I dont feel like fussing with requesting hands 100 at a time. I think anyone capable of beating games WITHOUT a HUD would certainly be able to use a HUD effectively. Really, these HUDonks don't have a chance against someone good postflop. What postflop data do they have? AF? I'd estimate that quite a bit of these HUDonks have no clue how to use AF (2+2 status quo on that stat isn't correct, imo). It's been said plenty of times that simply limiting your preflop calls/raises is more then enough to beat weak players...What else do most HUDonks do besides play tight preflop? Their postflop strategies vary from weak to maniac with both being easily figured out and exploited.

I just find it hillarious that these HUDonks think they are great players and a real asset to WPEX. If I'm a fish, would I rather play against a TAG HUDonk (who clearly has an advantage over me) or would I rather play a good LAG who plays more hands, gives more action, and is far less robotic. The LAG is going to win more money in the long run but is going to provide much more entertainment. Besides, the overall strength of the fish has been getting better over the years and they are going to catch up to the HUDonks way before they catch up to the good, thinking players.

Note, I'm only speaking about LHE here.

[DING-DONG YO]

[ QUOTE ]
Gregg I agrees with what you are saying. Can you imagine the amount of buzz that would generate if WSEX funded all the rake into Any aces full beaten jackpots and $50.00 random player giveaways. Fish would like these promotions.


And I am suprised by the WSEX model. They really should not be giving out rakeback dollars, but credits for bets in their sportsbook.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will never understand 2+2.

donkaments, high rake, FPP promos aren't enough.

cold hard cash in the form of RB isn't enough.

Nothing is adequate.

and I only have 1 thing to say about WPEX's current reputation as a "rock garden" and "no fish there", etc.

Go play there for a week.

[PokerAce]

I still think it's funny that many high limit, well respected players use my software, but yet, a lot of low limit nobodies feel they are better than people who use a HUD.

Players who earn hundreds of dollars per hour are donks who don't know how to play poker? Makes me smile every time I think about it.

The fact is, that I could add support for WPEX if I wanted and have hand histories with player names on them. There is little that WPEX can do. However, it has always been my stance to respect the sites and not break their rules. If WPEX doesn't want to increase their traffic, and in fact, drive traffic away from their tables, then that is their right. I see no reason why I should spend my time to improve the usability of their software when they would benefit from it more than I would.

[DING-DONG YO]

PokerAce, I don't think this is the issue. No one thinks your software isn't great. It is, no 2 ways about it.

However, I think many players, myself included, long for a poker experience closer to what you get in a B&M. No pokertracker, HUD, other aids, etc. WPEX is providing that experience. Want to use PT/PA, go play somewhere else. Don't want to use it, you can play WPEX.

Also, tools like PT/PA aren't exactly unknown anymore. Even the fishiest of the fish knows there are programs out there. I can see some fish being too scared to play once they realize their opponents probably have that edge.

Come to think of it, WPEX could add that to their marketing campaign. "come play at WPEX, no rake, no software aids, just poker". If that isn't fish-friendly, I don't know what is.

[PokerAce]

What's easier for you to remember? The guy with the goofy hair raises a lot, or 'john2342' raises a lot?

The stats aid in recognizing tendencies. It's much easier to put faces to the way someone plays than it is to remember how a random internet name plays. Therefore, it can be argued that HUDs make online poker more similar to B&M games.

The fact of the matter is that there are players who will not play on WPEX because they don't have HUD support. There are few players who are going to flock to WPEX because they make it even more difficult for HUD users. Despite what the anti-HUD users would like you to think, the fish really don't care.

[primetime32]

The fact is that they would increase traffic for now by allowing PAHUD to work. I know of not one person that is waiting to play at a site that does NOT allow poker aids. But there are plenty of players that were waiting for WPEX to allow them to work.

I don't really care either way, but i do have a problem playing at a site where i sit down at a NL 200 or NL 400 table and see the same damn 3 people every time. If allowing PAHUD to work would increase the amount of players (even if it is some of the same) at least there would be more variety and probably an increase in the fish who would not wait 20 minutes for the only NL 200 table to open up.

For the last few months WPEX has not been PAHUD compatible and the site hasn't grown. Not sure what players the new software will attract.

Does anyone think there is a donkey out there waiting for a PT compatible site that doesn't allow pahud? Might as well just not have PT and attract the over 60 crowd of players who are scared of progress.