$5.50 JJ line check

[QandA201]

I think I butchered this.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero (t1390)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1360)
MP1 (t945)
MP2 (t1505)
MP3 (t2220)
CO (t1560)
Button (t1230)
SB (t2290)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J.
3 folds</font>, MP2 calls t50, MP3 calls t50, 1 fold</font>, Button calls t50, SB completes, Hero checks.

I probably should have raised here, and thought about making it 300 to go, but I decided that since I'd probably get 1-2 callers anyway, I didn't really want to spend that much to play JJ oop, when I have to dump to overs. So I decided to check to see a cheap flop and go from there.

Flop: (t250) 5, 4, 8 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t200, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t200, Button calls t200, SB folds.

Semi-coordinated all-under board here. I think safe for me to ~pot. So I bet 200 into a 250 pot, trying to make FD's pay more than correct odds, and hopefully get heads up.

Turn: (t850) Q (3 players)
Hero bets t400, MP3 calls t400, Button folds.

Pretty safe turn card here. Helps almost no one who calls flop bet, no flush, no nothing. So I bet 1/2 pot, hoping to this time push out FD's.

River: (t1650) K (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets t1570 (All-In), Hero calls t740 (All-In).

This is my scare card. It gives two overs to my hand, and although it doesn't complete the flush, it makes me worry. Also, a bet would accomplish nothing, as all better hands call, and all worse hands fold. So I check. He pushes, which looks like a whiffed draw or a hand like A8 who thinks he can take it away. So I call. Am I way off base with that read here, or is that pretty accurate?

Final Pot: t3960

Advice/input on all actions appreciated.

[mnlgrind]

First, I'd raise it to 200 PF. If I get 2-3 callers, I'll push that flop and go broke. If there are overs, I'd prolly check/fold. JJ sucks here IMHO.

[DaN_05]

[ QUOTE ]
First, I'd raise it to 200 PF. If I get 2-3 callers, I'll push that flop and go broke. If there are overs, I'd prolly cbet (when raised I fold) if I get called ill check/fold.

This g00t? When I shove the pot most often enough it gets folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

So often you're putting in like 50% of your stack and having to fold... not good. There's not much room for raising and c-betting here.

Meh, I'd probably just shove PF and pick up 200 chips...

I guess raising to like t275 and shoving an undercard flop is OK too, but if the flop brings an overcard I'd probably not like to c-bet here.

[mnlgrind]

dan:

Funny, I just realized I gave out bad advice and read your post after editing, cbetting is here awful, sorry my bad. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Dan.]

I like a shove and a call by Ax.

[Weir]

i like the 300 flop raise preflop. Then your play should be fairly obvious after that.

Don't worry about playing JJ out of position, it is the 5th best hand, and if you are beat preflop here, there is nothing you can do.

[Dan.]

[ QUOTE ]
i like the 300 flop raise preflop. Then your play should be fairly obvious after that.

Don't worry about playing JJ out of position, it is the 5th best hand, and if you are beat preflop here, there is nothing you can do.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your line on a Axx, Kxx, KQx, etc board? Now that you've invested nearly 1/4th of your stack do you check/fold? Seems foolish.

[onnel]

[ QUOTE ]
What's your line on a Axx, Kxx, KQx, etc board? Now that you've invested nearly 1/4th of your stack do you check/fold? Seems foolish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just a dumb newbie, but cbet and fold or is that just throwing good money after bad?

Onnel

[Weir]

I like a small continuation bet if they seem tight or normal......like maybe half the pot or whatever leaves you with enough chips to play with if you have to fold.

the key to this is when you have a bigger hand than jacks (assuming the board isn't too scary), make the exact same bet, it can get a lot of action with less than premium hands like mid pocket pairs, second pairs, and draws. Rarely do people call here.......either they have it and raise you or fold.

If they are the type who will raise you all in with 3-7 offsuit b/c you bet a fairly small amount, i say just check/call tiny stupid bets and check/fold any signifigant bets.

The thing is....you invested 1/4 your stack with the best hand (usually), so there is nothing wrong with that. If you get outflopped, it is just bad luck and no reason to give away the rest of your stack to some guy playing k3.

Edit: If there is only one overcard that flops, you very well may have the best hand. I think the things I said earlier still apply, just don't autofold b/c the guy raises you all in if their is only one overcard.

[Fammy]

I like the idea of raising big / pushing pre-flop...it is the ONLY time you are playing with position (best position as a matter of fact), and is the definition of the squeeze play with very good cards to boot (JJ darn good for this...people do it with a lot less). No one has shown strength, and IMHO, each additional call could represent weaker and weaker hands that are simply following the odds. Bet big / push (significant F.E. here), and if you do get 1 or 2 callers, it is not small odds that you are at worst in a race (only 3 - 4 hands better right now...depending on who you read, and with this many people at the table, I find it hard to believe that AA, KK, QQ, AK are not raising / re-raising here) and likely you are way ahead if they call. If it were earlier (1st or 2nd level) I can see playing this way as people will call an appropriate raise with just about anything as it is such a small part of the stack. T300 OTOH is going to take a fairly big chunk out of opponent's stack if he guesses wrong.

My read on this is they are going to run fast. I take the chips and run.

Fammy