200NL...Feeling lost with AQ

[chesspain]

UTG (313.20)
UTG+1 (587.65)
MP (220.09)
chesspain (223.70)
CO (193.00)
Button (59.15)
SB (275.58)
BB (164.80)

I've only been at the table for couple of orbits, so I don't have any reads.

Preflop: chesspain is LP with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. (BB=$2).
3 folds, <font color="red">chesspain raises to $6</font>, 1 fold, Button calls $6, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($19) T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks, chesspain checks, <font color="red">Button bets $6</font>, BB calls $6, chesspain calls $6.

Turn: ($37) Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">BB bets $5</font>, <font color="red">chesspain raises to $25</font>, <font color="red">Button raises all-in to $47.15</font>, BB folds, chesspain calls $47.15 (getting 5:1).

Since I'm an NL cash game noobie, every street seems debateable to me.

[degenrat]

i hate the check call on the flop. as played i think you have a tough time distinguishing wheter you are beat or not(i think you are). Id think either 2pr for the villian or a straight and a flush draw.

Look at the action in the hand. the button has seen pf agression a check call on the flop followed by a reraise on the turn, what would make you think 1 pair is good here. given the action he needs a very strong holding to make this play(the push) as you are getting the odds to call. so basically his hand has to bebetter than your to make the bet(and it almost cretainly is).

[Margon]

I am by no means good, and I too struggle with these types of hands....here are my thoughts.

You lost position, that is the key for this hand to me. When I am raising preflop I have two goals, 1 get the button, 2 get it heads up.

I don't mind the pass on the c-bet on the flop, however, when the opponent bets less than 1-third the size of the pot, I would seriously consider a check raise of 15-20. If he calls or raises I know I am in a world of hurt, and will likely fold to a raise. Calling here is basically fishing for a King. The villan, assuming he plays back at you on your flop raise, is representing more than top pair.

Turn comes and helps you, however, you now have TPTK. I like to show these hands down for as cheaply as possible. The pot is now 42, with 5 for you to call. I think that a call then a call on the river (for a reasonable amount (less than a PSB) will show this down as cheaply as possible. When you raise it and you get reraised all in, I stuggle to find a call here.

One of my keys in SSNL is to not go broke with top pair....

Just some thoughts,

Margon

[Sir Winalot]

I'm raising this to 4BB preflop and c-betting the flop for 3/4-pot (dry board, good for a c-bet IMO).

[netstorm]

Dont like the flop check/call. Either make a c-bet here, or make a raise. His low bet shows either weakness, or a big hand (2pair, set) With a c-bet AT or AJ will stick around, aswell as KQ etc. sowait for the turn and evaluate.

furthermore, on the turn I think youre beat. Button pushed all-in vs. a bet and a raise. How can your TPTK be good here? Basically the only hand you beat here is KQ, AT or AJ but would the button make such a play with those cards? Seems highly unlikely.

~netstorm

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
i hate the check call on the flop. as played i think you have a tough time distinguishing wheter you are beat or not(i think you are). Id think either 2pr for the villian or a straight and a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think a c-bet would do me no good on this flop. Consequently, are you saying I should just fold the flop getting 5:1, with four outs to the nuts and discounted overcard outs which may be good?



[ QUOTE ]
Look at the action in the hand. the button has seen pf agression a check call on the flop followed by a reraise on the turn, what would make you think 1 pair is good here. given the action he needs a very strong holding to make this play(the push) as you are getting the odds to call. so basically his hand has to bebetter than your to make the bet(and it almost cretainly is).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure I am behind to the Button, although I don't think it's unreasonable to assign some possibility to a hand like KQo or KT/KJ of spades. Nonetheless, even if the Button has, say, a two-pair hand, then I certainly have the odds to call getting 5:1.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, on the turn I think youre beat. Button pushed all-in vs. a bet and a raise. How can your TPTK be good here? Basically the only hand you beat here is KQ, AT or AJ but would the button make such a play with those cards? Seems highly unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not whether I'm good or not. It's whether I have the odds to call getting 5:1 when, within the Button's range, are included two-pair hands against which I have counterfeiting outs in addition to my nut straight outs.

[degenrat]

if you give him a FD to go with whatever has you already beat, then a ton of your outs are dirty. i don't see how you can think you have that many clean outs. if he has a set you are in huge trouble. 2pr and a fd trouble. made str8 trouble. you are hopin that he has a naked 2 pr and you can counterfit him or hit your gutshot.

i don't like it. do the numbers and prove me wrong, but i think you are way behind, with not as big a chance to catch up as you think. obv if you could say for sure he has Queens and 10s you are ok, but outside of that, i think you are in for a big hurting.

Edit: and this for me is an Auto bet on the flop. i hate the check calling .

[MatthewRyan]

cbet the flop, u have 10 outs and fold equity

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
if you give him a FD to go with whatever has you already beat, then a ton of your outs are dirty. i don't see how you can think you have that many clean outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't be ahead of me and have a FD at the same time unless he has exactly J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].