live tourney strategy with reasonably quick levels

[BigAlK]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a plan.
I suppose you mean playing connectors, etc. and other hands in position?

There is one problem with this. It means that I won't be respected as a tight player so it might be harder to steal later.

Any thoughts on that?

[/ QUOTE ]

As AceLuby indicates you're not likely to have many people from the early stages still at the same table as you by that point (hopefully you'll have all their chips).

However I'm not sure your image will always be loose from the early stages anyway. You'll limp into a few more pots (or possibly call a single standard raise from LP) with these hands. Those that don't hit you'll usually release to any significant presure and it won't make much impression on most of your opponents. When you hit you'll take down a big hand.

Snyder in "The Poker Tournament Formula" (which hopefully you'll have a chance to read) maintains that although he's recommending a lot of LAG techniques (although he doesn't use that term) that his table image is actually tight because he's using them selectively, looking for specific situations.

I've found as I've fine-tuned my game using his recommendations that after knocking out a few players with strong, but somewhat disguised hands, then I'm feared. Those players who have been around enough to notice are afraid to get too involved in pots without strong hands and I can sometimes steal pots with marginal holdings.

Al

[nath]

Attack, attack, attack.

[Dr1Gonzo]

Out of interest, if this is standard for most B&M games, doesn't it make it much better for speed players to gain an advantage? Online, my normal style is conservative getting more aggressive later, but it seems like I'll have to adapt for these B&M games.

Also, what do you reckon the bankroll requirements would be for speed tourneys of this nature? Still around the 50 buy-ins mark ?

[AtlasRaised]

you are not as short-stacked and the levels are not as quick as you might think here.

This is a better-than-average structure for the lower-limit live MTT's around Vegas.

Many have ultra-turbo 15 min levels and most don't start with the 25-25 (this is a great level when its offered, two live blinds, tons of limps, chance to make some plays early, standard raise is only 75 to 100.) Most start at 25/50 instead.

Also, most progress 25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 200/400, 300/600, 500/1000 (ie - Sahara, Harrah's, etc.)

Here you are adding in two more levels with the 75/150 and 150/300...so you have much more opportunity to build.

Usually when you move up in stakes the structures get even better. The Mirage ($230) and Caesars ($180) are probably the best nightly structures in town, with 3000 starting and 30min/45min levels. Venetian ($160) is also good.

[Dr1Gonzo]

Actually, it goes straight in at 25-50 (my mistake), but fair enough.

You definitely have about 1 hour to build, but it's tricky. You can be short stacked by around level 4 or 5 if things don't go well. While the average stack may not be that great, you are then basically into push/fold territory, which isn't that great!

[bucktotal]

if you are rushed (rapidly dropping M), its important to play a minimum number of hands. so, you need to figure out what the minimim number of hands you need to play/win to keep up with the blinds. and make sure you at least play x # of hands.

i have played in live tourny's that have 12 min blinds. this is barely once around a full table. so, i make sure to play at least a hand every round somewhere. most definitely, i'm trying to see any flop in late positions.

and do what nath said.

[Dr1Gonzo]

I agree but with the attack, attack, attack approach you have to be worried about hands likw AK, AQ, etc. especially at a 10 handed table (as well as PPs obviously)
I suppose that just goes with the territory and the players/situation but you could lose a lot of chips by being overly aggressive?

[StrayBullet]

20 minutes = 10 hands per level if you're lucky...and some have mentioned adjusting due to the speed of the blinds, there's a good discussion about this in the Books section [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Dr1Gonzo]

[ QUOTE ]

If I've done my math right this structure would have a patience factor of 4.94 and a skill level of 3. In comparison the WSOP main event has a patience factor of 75.24 (skill level 6) and most online MTTs are 7.5 - 9.5 patience factor range (skill levels 4 and 5).
[/quote/

I ran some calculations and get a patience level of 2.3 for this tournament with blinds:
25 50
50 100
75 150
100 200
150 300


Is that right? If so, it seems pointless playing this B&M tournament as it's more luck than skill ?!

Edit: forget that, I did the sums wrong. It's a PF of 4.72

[BigAlK]

Glad I put my disclaimer about doing the math. If you look at the poker forum in the PTF site there is a link to an excel spreadsheet that can be used to compute patience factors. I just ran these number through that and got a PF of 4.26, skill level 2. Mighty fast tournament (Snyder would call it a crapshoot).