Do you ask yourself why they folded? $60 challenge... - Page 8

milesdyson · #71 09-01-2006, 03:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
fine mahls.

this one qualifies and it is also not a set.

WPEX
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
3 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (3 players) Guruman is Button with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Guruman raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Guruman calls (5.5:1).

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Guruman calls (7.5:1).

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Guruman raises, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Guruman.

Results:
Final pot: 6.25BB

[/ QUOTE ]
NO. READ THE THREAD. SERSIOULSY, ARE YOU REARSSDDED

milesdyson · #72 09-01-2006, 03:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just got this one right now:

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3SB, 3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 10.5BB

[/ QUOTE ]
NO, YOU ARE TETAREDED

milesdyson · #73 09-01-2006, 03:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I GOT ONE I GOT ONE!

Villain is crap tag, 20/14/2.5 over 350 hands.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Pete is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
4 folds, SB calls, Pete raises, SB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4SB, 2 players)
SB checks, Pete bets, SB raises, Pete 3-bets, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1SB returned to Pete.

Results:
Final pot: 4BB

[/ QUOTE ]
NO.

Peter Harris · #74 09-01-2006, 03:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I GOT ONE I GOT ONE!

Villain is crap tag, 20/14/2.5 over 350 hands.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Pete is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
4 folds, SB calls, Pete raises, SB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4SB, 2 players)
SB checks, Pete bets, SB raises, Pete 3-bets, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1SB returned to Pete.

Results:
Final pot: 4BB

[/ QUOTE ]
NO.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
This can mean he checkraised...and then folded on the same street after you re-popped him.

[/ QUOTE ]

stfu miles [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

milesdyson · #75 09-01-2006, 03:41 AM

maybe yours is fine buyt really you still dont have that much of a moster so i dont think it qualifis

if it does, at leats im man enough to admit i am sorry

Peter Harris · #76 09-01-2006, 03:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
maybe yours is fine buyt really you still dont have that much of a moster so i dont think it qualifis

if it does, at leats im man enough to admit i am sorry

[/ QUOTE ]

the requirement for it to be a monster wasn't in there. Spy Dog said he'd 'prefer' hands where we'd rather they hadn't folded. Maybe discussion about whether or not i'm looking for a fold on this board would be more productive [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

restless · #77 09-01-2006, 07:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I GOT ONE I GOT ONE!

Villain is crap tag, 20/14/2.5 over 350 hands.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Pete is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
4 folds, SB calls, Pete raises, SB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4SB, 2 players)
SB checks, Pete bets, SB raises, Pete 3-bets, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1SB returned to Pete.

Results:
Final pot: 4BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this hand (and the topic) is interesting.
To start a discussion on how to approach the situation I'd like to throw out a few ideas...

If I understand you correctly you're talking about a situation where you beleive that your opponent is about to make a mistake of some sort. You think you have him beat, yet he plays aggressively. Of course, you can't be sure you have him beat but it is very likely. The main objective at this point in the hand is to entice your opponent to commit the most costly mistake, right? That = you earn the most money.

What are the possible mistakes your opponent can commit at this point?

a) He fold hands that he shouldn't (if you raise)
b) He calls down with hands that he shouldn't (if you raise)
c) He keeps betting hands he shouldn't (if you just call)
(please add more here...)

Is any of these mistakes inherently more severe than the other? I dunno, probably not. It surely has to do with board texture, his hand range etc etc.

If you could choose one of these mistakes that you could entice your opponent to do too frequently, what would it be?

In Pete's hand I don't think too many villains will do b) or c) here due to the board texture and your apparent strength.
So in this case I think that there is a bigger chance than usual that your opponent will fold too much here if you raise, so I think its a nice raise.

Peter Harris · #78 09-01-2006, 07:30 AM

in retrospect it's odd that a tag, even a crappy one, opencompleted in the SB. So i don't know what to think, maybe he has a 9. If he has an ace he's raise it PF. So I'm raising out a hand that's behind me here, since i have the nut draw too (excluding 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] where villain has exactly J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - another SB raise!).

So i think the raise sucks in retrospect, and I don't want him out here.

JerseyTom · #79 09-01-2006, 10:37 AM

OK, here's one...

As I remember, Villain was a complete maniac; something like 85/55/2. C/R'ed for fun, capped all streets w/bottom pair, any draw, etc. Then this:

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) JerseyTom is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB raises, JerseyTom 3-bets, CO folds, SB calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7SB, 2 players)
SB checks, JerseyTom bets, SB raises, JerseyTom 3-bets, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1SB returned to JerseyTom.

Results:
Final pot: 5.5BB

Now I think this was the proper line against this guy; he just decided to grow a brain this hand.

Against any sane opponent, I'm probably just calling the flop C/R and popping the turn.

Tom

KingOtter · #80 09-01-2006, 11:14 AM

Thinking more about what SpyDog is looking for in this thread has led me to the fact I think he's looking for hands where we're probably ahead and folding people out with raises. With this in mind I went back in my database. I was looking for broadways that I raised pre-flop, got donked on the flop and folded them out with a raise... (I think my initial filters were too stringent so I missed these hands my first searches) like this:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB folds.

Final Pot: 3.75 BB

A call down here may have been warranted, but with the wheel-draw and flush draw both on the board I don't know if I would have been able to pull the trigger on a later street. If the 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] came on the turn. Perhaps a raise/fold would be in order then?

Perhaps this one qualifies as well:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 4 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB folds.

Final Pot: 3.75 BB

If he had A9, f'rinstance, I should have let him draw to it, and get more from him when he hits his dominated 2-pair. This hand only has a flush draw... and while I'm thinking I'm getting an extra SB from a flush draw, perhaps that overall EV of raising is still bad since I'm folding out the rest of the hands, when I might be able to get another BB from them on the turn.

I think one of the keys is if the opponent has a decent aggression, he probably folds a fair amount and so we should let them aggress rather than beating them over the head and making them fold too early.

Here's another:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Clearly I should have called the turn bet, and let him bet the river to pop him there.