$22: Checkraising w/ big pair on an A hi flop

[SammyKid11]

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i dont like using a play like this without a read, but i suppse out of the blinds its alright. remember though, you can still be put off your hand against smart players so c/r is a dangerous move without a big hand and should be used sparingly, even here. the thing is, the opponent "float" in low buy ins is more to see a showdown and not to bluff you off your hand like it is in the standard sense of the word, so if you bet out and get called, you still may not need to put more money into the pot and may have the best hand. you might lose yourself in a c/r.

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When you say that I can "lose myself" in a check-raise what do you mean? If I get called or raised I think I can safely assume I'm behind. Do you think that a check-raise wastes too many chips?

Also let's say I lead out the flop and get called. If the turn bricks do you bet again? Do you check-call or check-fold? Getting called just really sucks on the flop because it doesn't mean that he has an ace, but I don't want to invest that many more chips in this hand.

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Essentially, you're using your c/r as a c-bet...finding out where you are and trying to maybe take the pot down right there. Even as the action was played, it's an expensive c-bet (100% of pot). Perhaps your instinct is right and it's a little more accurate than betting out would be...but I would think the difference is marginal. The difference between what you have to spend to bet out (around 180) versus what you have to spend check-raising (twice that, under the BEST of circumstances...you're right, sometimes he's gonna make it larger necessitating a larger c/r) is too big a price to pay, IMO.

Plus, you're at the 22's. I don't know that a ton of people are sophisticated enough to be running elaborate, multi-street bluffs. If he's calling you, he either has an ace (or better)...or he's hoping to get to a cheap showdown with a lower pocket pair or some other piece of the flop (remember, being in the blinds here, he might easily be calling you down with no more than middle pair).

Bet out t180 > c/r. If he raises substantially, you're gone. If he calls, check the turn and try to get to a cheap/free showdown. If he makes it too expensive, get outta there unimproved. The very bottom line is that this is not cash game poker. You simply cannot afford to be wrong here very often for it to be profitable to play too aggressively with an underpair...because you have stack considerations which, at this point in the SnG, must take the driver's seat.

As a note...this might be a great thing to do at 109+ facing an opponent you know is quite skilled. I just don't think it's worth it here.

[scrilla]

I think isnt too bad. It's just a little fancy for my playing style. With your chip stack I would have bet out on the flop and then check folded the rest if called.

Scrilla

[hey_hermano]

There are a lot of great points being made in this thread, IMO. I agree with OP in the sense that the logic of the situation dictates that c/r > c-bet for defining the strength of your hand. I also like the move in that you get a little more value from your hand than you would if you bet and he folded (which, we can't forget, he will do most of the time, not having hit whatever hand he has and probably not being invested enough in the pot to make a play).

On the other hand, I like Sammykid's point that you are playing the $22's, which means the villain is not necessarily even aware of the situational logic (i.e., you are raising with a wide range from SB and often are making a c-bet, etc.), which is a prerequisite for this move to be worth it.

If you think that this villain (see, AMT's post) is the type that will let you c-bet and still see a cheap showdown, then the c/r has different value from if you would have to put in another turn bet (as a bet or call).

I definitely like your move, and think it's a good play to have in your repetoir, but maybe the $22's aren't the best place to use it, unless you have the read that villain knows you are raising with wide range and c-betting, etc....

[d240t]

Heads up in a small blind vs big blind situation, you need to play this like it started heads up. That is, you can't give an opponent credit for top pair every time he bets or calls a bet, even if you have been tight. That said, you should treat this situation like it is heads up - you have a massive overpair, almost ignore the top card on the flop. It just happens to be your biggest scare card.

Against people who will autobet but fold to resistance, I'll often check-raise with ace-high in situations like these (raise preflop with A9+, get called, flop 3 cards below a 9, I check, he autobets, I check-raise). In a hand like this, I'd tend to check-raise or check-call a lot. I'm not afraid to take KK to showdown heads up.

[Taraz]

Thanks for all the good advice so far guys.

My main concern in this hand is that I was thinking ahead to the turn. If my flop bet gets called it is still very likely that I'm ahead, but I would have to fold to any reasonable turn bet. I'm also afraid that c-betting and checking the turn looks really weak and that a wide range of hands will bet the turn in position.

Sammy, I'm not really worried about an elaborate bluff from the BB. I am more concerned that he won't check behind the turn with his medium PP. I appreciate your advice though; this play might not be as effective at the 22s than at higher limits.

I'd also like to reiterate that this isn't a standard play for me at all. It just seemed right given a decently LAGish opponent.