$55: A couple value bets

[HesseJam]

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Hand 1 fold preflop.



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This is something that annoys me a little at this board (Mr.Jones, please don't take this personally, many others do this too, even in this thread):

The OP poses a question: "River value bet or not"? Responses should not just say "Fold pre flop" and then end of discussion. It's ok to say this but then the original question should also be discussed.

OK, my take: I haven't played a single 55, so I can't really add. At the 15+1, hand 1 is an ok value bet against typical unknowns because nonsense holdings are paying off. I's raise a bit less though, maybe 240. Hand 2 is never one because nonsense straights are possible and like slow playing.

[speedyg]

Given the number of opponents present on the flop, I would tend to put you on an intermediate made hand before a drawing hand after your flop raise. I don't believe you will win a high enough proportion of the calls to make the river value bet profitable. However I do think I am too conservative in these situations.

[Sciencekid]

Why do all of you say fold hand 1 pf. the blinds are small compared to stacks surely this shud be the time to see these cheap flops and hop to hit?

[GtrHtr]

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I agree with everyone that the KK hand is a bad value bet. Not much to discuss there.

In the QJ hand, I like to see flops in position with decent hands. In this case, I definitely like to limp because the button was tight and unlikely to come along.

I did not want to just call on the flop and offer huge odds to everyone else on the coordinated board, especially when the flop bet was so weak. Once the BB calls, we can put them on a draw or a pretty big hand. The turn is a great card, but a bet here kind of commits me to this pot. So I checked it through to take advantage of my position on the river.

The river is another great card. When the BB checks, we now know that he was on a draw that missed. So the question is, will MP pay off with his likely marginal hand, and just how marginal is it? This was one of the first hands of the SNG, so I didn't have much to go on except for the fact that he wasn't a regular. But in general, I think MP's line looks weak enough that he has a worse hand most of the time and my turn check will induce a random unknown player to call with some of them.

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I agree with your thinking on hand 1 and would often (not always) play it the same way. I think MP and a donkish BB pay you off. The tough part is if you induce a bluff on the river here, which can happen against some players on the 55s.

Hand 2 is an obvious check. Opening the door to all kinds of horrible things happening with that value bet. Its a nice pot as it is, if we win it - cool, if not, no big deal. Check.

[bennies]

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The turn is a great card, but a bet here kind of commits me to this pot. So I checked it through to take advantage of my position on the river.


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Good post, but I don't like this. Why wait, why not take advantage of your position on the turn already? I don't see why a turn bet would commit you to the pot, if raised we should be able to comfortably fold right? (Especially at the 55's where most villains play pretty straightforward).

[Pudge714]

Hand 1
Fold preflop. Call flop. Check turn. Bet river

Hand 2: I probably check behind the pot is already so big and your bet is so small that it isn't worth extracting a small amount of value when you could get pushed off your hand.

[gumpzilla]

Hand 1: Not a fan. One of those guys is probably on the flush draw, but that's either not paying you off or pulls some crazy bluff and then your bet's no good. I have a hard time imagining worse hands calling, especially in BB's case because he has to worry about the player still behind him.

Hand 2: This looks better. There are a few worse pairs that will probably call and you have a fairly easy fold if you get raised, since I think people will c/r bluff into that board quite rarely. EDIT: I think the key to this one is that the bet is quite small. As a result, I think people will look you up pretty light because they're getting good odds. If you chose to bluff in this spot it wouldn't have to be very successful at all for it to be profitable, and so it's a pretty credible spot for a bluff, meaning worse hands can call. If the bet is much bigger at all this all stops being true.