Party 0.50/1.00 - UI overcards 3 way

feroder_zb · #1 08-28-2006, 01:44 AM

Regretably readless. I ususally c-bet flops like these into one player. What do you think about firing the second bullet? Thanks.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, SB calls.

River: (7 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Ampelmann · #2 08-28-2006, 02:11 AM

If your hand was best on the flop, it was best on the turn. The flop had a possible straight draw, so I think betting the turn again is good here. And yes, check behind on the river. I expect A high to be good here sometimes.

cold_cash · #3 08-28-2006, 02:17 AM

I can dig it.

This can turn into a sticky situation if your opponent is decent and/or tricky and bets the river though.

Magellan · #4 08-28-2006, 02:25 AM

I would definitely c-bet this flop HU, but I'm not sure there is value in doing so against 2 unknowns. I think a c-bet here occasionally is good against thinking opps so you're not too predictable, but I don't think you fold both often enough for this to be the most +EV play in a vaccuum. Lately I've been trying to be more selective with my c-bets. By the turn it looks as though one of your opps has 2nd pair or a mid PP. As played, when the board pairs on the turn, I don't mind a mix of bet/fold sometimes (hoping for a free SD UI) and check/fold sometimes (hoping for a free card and free SD UI).

Wizard0965 · #5 08-28-2006, 02:26 AM

You took a shot on the flop and didn't scare aware anyone. The board isn't un-coordinated enough for me to fire a second shot. MP1 called two cold preflop and without reads I have to give him a little respect. He might be holding T's which you managed to push him off of. But if he is loose and was playing A6o then the pairing of the board is really bad. Basically with two players on that board I won't fire again, I'm done UI.

cold_cash · #6 08-28-2006, 02:32 AM

I think the coldcaller is going to be dominated or have a guthot a big portion of the time.

gostros · #7 08-28-2006, 03:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If your hand was best on the flop, it was best on the turn. The flop had a possible straight draw, so I think betting the turn again is good here. And yes, check behind on the river. I expect A high to be good here sometimes.

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I'm not sure I understand your logic. We gained info on the flop that suggested that we may not be best here, so there is definitely a reason to question the turn bet. Since both opponents stuck around (one being a cold caller), it seems likely that we are beat.

The unknown cold caller is more likely to have a small-medium PP than Ax.

The SB seems to be playing with a mid pair.

I am probobly wrong here. Just putting it out there.

Ampelmann · #8 08-28-2006, 03:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
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If your hand was best on the flop, it was best on the turn. The flop had a possible straight draw, so I think betting the turn again is good here. And yes, check behind on the river. I expect A high to be good here sometimes.

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I'm not sure I understand your logic. We gained info on the flop that suggested that we may not be best here,

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How did we get this info? He have no reads on both villains, they may be calling stations, calling with A high, K high, a gutshot, or complete air. There is a straight draw possible on this board, so SB might even be a good player with KQs, drawing to overs+gutshot. They obviously don't like their hands too much or else they would have bet or raised.

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so there is definitely a reason to question the turn bet. Since both opponents stuck around (one being a cold caller), it seems likely that we are beat.

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I don't say that I c-bet this turn 100%. I would certainly like a read, but I don't mind the turn bet because the board is slightly coordinated.

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The unknown cold caller is more likely to have a small-medium PP than Ax.

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Possibly. But then he might release his pp on the turn.

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The SB seems to be playing with a mid pair.

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I have no idea where you got that info from. Are you a mind reader?

I don't say we're good here 100%, or even 50%. But I think we're good often enough (plus we might draw to the best hand) to warrant a bet sometimes. A read would help, of course.

gostros · #9 08-28-2006, 04:01 AM

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I don't say that I c-bet this turn 100%. I would certainly like a read, but I don't mind the turn bet because the board is slightly coordinated.

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Yes. I missed this point. The concept that a coordinated board makes weaker holdings more likely for passive opponents is interesting. I had not really considered it until you pointed it out, so thanks!

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The unknown cold caller is more likely to have a small-medium PP than Ax.

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Possibly. But then he might release his pp on the turn.

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I would think that most players who would call an underpair on the flop would not be wise enough to correct their mistake and fold on the turn. Then again, many players are more willing to fork over the small bet rather than the big one.

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The SB seems to be playing with a mid pair.

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I have no idea where you got that info from. Are you a mind reader?

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Thanks for calling me out on this one. The SB obviously could also have a draw, due to the coordinated board, as well as some other holdings.

jrz1972 · #10 08-28-2006, 08:41 AM

I don't make it a habit to c-bet the turn against two opponents, but this looks like a good spot for it.

nh.