An OMGWTF line with AKs

[AKQJ10]

Upon reflection, I'm embarrassed I suggested betting the river. It's one of those awful, "Find out where I stand," bets when that information is of no use to me and only better hands will call. Check-calling the river is much better if we're confident that we're ahead of Villain's river betting range, which is the whole point of the thread.

That raises the question: Why is a turn check/raise not also a dubious "find out where I stand" play? I see four considerations that don't apply to the river bet:

<ul type="square">[*]The c/r looks much stronger. To all intents you're representing a set. You may well get 88 and 66 to fold.[*]The c/r carries "the hammer of future bets," hence also may get better hands to fold.[*]Conversely, you may have the better hand that's in need of protection. If Villain has something like AJ, KQ, even JTs, you'd rather not give him a free shot at a three- (or six-) outer. Admittedly this is the least important reason to c/r, but it's a difference between showing aggression on the turn and the river.[*]The flush draw gives you equity on the turn that doesn't apply once you miss your draw. [/list]
However, that flush draw suggests a great reason NOT to check/raise: What if you're freerolling against AK? A check-raise will fold out a hand that you'd much rather stay in. But perhaps this is offset by avoiding the possiblity of getting outplayed on the river (e.g., bluffed out by AK).

[cts]

I don't like your flop line I would pick something else.

[Acein8ter]

[ QUOTE ]

If I'm villain and I see hero make a 1/3 pot bet into me on the flop I'm raising with any two.

[/ QUOTE ]

People that hit a set of 9's can bet 1/3 pot to make it look like a probe waiting for someone to go over the top. Then it's a re-raise for 1/2 your stack...

[L_Dude]

Here's another vote for fold the flop. I know it isn't sexy, but it's correct. Let's say you called PF on purpose, you are hoping that villian's PFR is a weaker ace or king, rather than a PP. Why? If it's a PP, you will get little to no action if you hit your hand, unless of course he made his set.

Now we have blanks hit the flop, you get a CB, and have no idea where you stand. None. It's time to fold. It may be a small mistake, but anything else stands a good chance of being a big one.

Once you call the flop, you should c/f the turn. Since he let you off on the turn, you get a free look at the river. If a heart hits, bet. He'll call with almost any hand the way this was played.

[pokerchap]

raise flop?

[BigPoppa]

Am I the only one who doesn't reraise AK out of position?

[kitaristi0]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who doesn't reraise AK out of position?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
It may be a small mistake, but anything else stands a good chance of being a big one.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's much to be said for this point of view. I tend to worry that I'm too conservative, that I'm letting myself get run over. But getting run over for the small pots isn't a disaster compared with making "suspicious" raises and building big pots against strong hands.

That said, always folding this flop is weak. With no read, it's OK. If you've identified Villain as a continuation bettor, fold 2/3, raise 1/3, and you won't have to worry that you're getting continuation bet to death.

[snakekilla88]

since you did not raise this preflop this hand you made it difficult on yourself.

river call is spew

[cts]

The flop is so dry that I think he has to give you credit for at least a pair when you call. I think he is unlikely to bluff this river and if he did I think he'd bet more. Sometimes players will check behind the turn here for pot control since the board is so dry and they don't wanna get owned by a set.